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UK justice system is a joke.

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UK justice system is a joke.

Old 25th Jul 2019, 22:35
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UK justice system is a joke.

A doctor, convicted of possessing over 1500 child porn photographs and videos, many of them "category A - the most severe and explicit grade of image" was sentenced to a two year community order, required to take part in a sex offenders program and placed on the sex offenders register for ten years.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...child-15668028

Meanwhile,
Another man was jailed for 22 months for sending "grossly offensive messages" on Facebook.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...oster-16647112

So it seems that the courts have deemed that offending adults is far more serious than the possession of the worst type of child pornography.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 23:17
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Originally Posted by 419 View Post
So it seems that the courts have deemed that offending adults is far more serious than the possession of the worst type of child pornography.
It would be more accurate to say that the MoJ, in the guise of the Sentencing Council, have taken that view. Judges have very little latitude nowadays when it comes to determining sentences.
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Old 25th Jul 2019, 23:59
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
It would be more accurate to say that the MoJ, in the guise of the Sentencing Council, have taken that view. Judges have very little latitude nowadays when it comes to determining sentences.
But the fact still remains that the possible sentence for possession of hard core child porn ranges from a community order to 3 years in jail
and it was the minimum sentence of a community order than was given.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/possession-of-indecent-photograph-of-child/

In the case of the man sending offensive messages on Facebook, a prison sentence of 22 months was passed which is a tiny bit under the maximum sentence permitted which is 2 years.
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/social-media-guidelines-prosecuting-cases-involving-communications-sent-social-media
So I stand by what I stated in that it appears that offending someone on Facebook is seen by some people in the legal system as worse than possessing the worst type of child porn.
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 01:21
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The whole damned system fell apart in my eyes when a life sentence stopped being a life sentence, say I killed someone and was sentenced to life say in the past, I might be serving 30 plus years and still be in jail where as someone convicted today may get life and be out in 7.

As for the cases mentioned I totally agree, far to lenient.

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Old 26th Jul 2019, 07:01
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Originally Posted by 419 View Post
But the fact still remains that the possible sentence for possession of hard core child porn ranges from a community order to 3 years in jail and it was the minimum sentence of a community order than was given.
No, my point still applies. The judge doesn't have freedom to arbitrarily impose the maximum (or minimum) allowable sentence. He/she has to take into account a whole bunch of factors, some aggravating and some mitigating, to avoid the risk of the sentence ending up in the Appeal Court.
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 07:40
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He/she has to take into account a whole bunch of factors
For example if the offended person is a cabinet minister....
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 07:53
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I am not qualified in the finer nuances of the justice system but am always amazed when watching these Police programmes that someone can drive a car being chased by six Police cars, have no tax, no insurance,no licence, no MOT and when sentenced are fined a few hundred pounds, banned from driving for a further period and given community service. What sort of deterrent is that? I accept their car gets seized but how many are just old bangers anyway worth peanuts.
Almost worth taking the chance?
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 07:58
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Before the deluge of JB "hang 'em and flog 'em . incarcerate for life " etc, etc, commences, possibly a bit of perspective may come in useful.

Revolting though the Doctor's crime was, he's effectively sentenced himself to life imprisonment. He's also on the sex offenders register...so any DBS checks for future employment are going to negate such.

He was a Doctor, he was married, note the past tense here. Now try and think what life holds for him as a result of his conviction. A custodial sentence would have served no real purpose, other than to appease society and unwarranted cost to the tax payer.

The second case is more concerning. Given the threats, and actions, against our MP's by those who are truly fanatical enough to wish such actions be carried out, there's long been growing and legitimate concerns for politicians safety. Obviously, when such cases come to court, it's far from unreasonable to expect the maximum penalty to be imposed.

However, from the reported quotes, and the medical condition, it would appear there has been an over reaction here. True, we don't, as always, know the full story but the media reports do suggest the case should be reviewed urgently.

Now edited to say in the light of a more expansive media report the sentence was justified but he also clearly needs professional medical help

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...gerard-traynor

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 26th Jul 2019 at 14:38.
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 20:51
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Well I know he has caused a lot of grief to people, but 18 years for making up stories seems a little harsh compared to other sentences for offences that most people would consider far more serious.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49130670
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 20:58
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I think "caused a lot of grief" rather underplays the number of lives grievously harmed by this man.

And then there's the child sexual offences.........
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Old 26th Jul 2019, 23:21
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Back in the late 1970s the British judiciary, expressed in this case as the body of its judges, started a very active campaign to promote the independence of the judiciary from the body politic.
This succeeded and now in Britain the judiciary pay scant attention to any dictate of parliament or the people and functions as an autonomous group, either collectively or as individuals.
That may be as you like it but it also means that the public will not necessarily get the justice it wants nor that paedophiles and criminal vermin deserve.
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 07:03
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Back in the late 1970s the British judiciary, expressed in this case as the body of its judges, started a very active campaign to promote the independence of the judiciary from the body politic.
.
Of course the British judiciary are not alone, and looking at current events in Sweden perhaps sometimes that independence might not be a bad thing.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...nfluence-asap/

But a spokesperson for the Swedish leader has maintained Mr Lofven told Mr Trump the government cannot influence the judicial process.

The spokesperson said: “It was a friendly and respectful phone call which lasted about 20 minutes. The Prime Minister made sure to point out that the Swedish judicial system, prosecutors and courts, are completely independent.

"He also pointed out that everyone is equal before the law and that the government neither can nor will try to influence the judicial process."
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 12:19
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
Back in the late 1970s the British judiciary, expressed in this case as the body of its judges, started a very active campaign to promote the independence of the judiciary from the body politic.
This succeeded and now in Britain the judiciary pay scant attention to any dictate of parliament or the people and functions as an autonomous group, either collectively or as individuals.
That may be as you like it but it also means that the public will not necessarily get the justice it wants nor that paedophiles and criminal vermin deserve.
Given that the only way that the dictate of parliament (and by extension, the people) can be established is by the passing of laws, perhaps you could point out some examples of when the judiciary have ignored said laws?
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Old 27th Jul 2019, 14:07
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No indeed, it would appear that statutory law in Britain always overrules common law and so I must retract that sentence. Thank you for pointing the error.
However, should the Marxists come to power and Richard Burgon become the Minister for Justice, there may be downsides to statute law of an equivalence not seen since 1215.
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