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What is poverty nowadays?

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What is poverty nowadays?

Old 18th Jul 2019, 00:11
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GtW

How is "being a law student" a job?
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 00:28
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Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy View Post
GtW

How is "being a law student" a job?
Of course, you were born qualified, with all the answers, you went straight to the top didn't you, because you were never a student and knew everything on day one. Yes? Oh, did you ever get to the top? or anywhere remotely near it??
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 01:21
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Many years ago - circa 1990 I was climbing in France, area we in, someone from group knew well and talked about this old guy who was pleased as punch. Water tap had been installed where he lived so no longer need to take it from the well.

He had bread and cheese for lunch with some Vino, made a living from some sheep and goats and really did not want for anything, lived a simple life where he would go into small town have a beer / cigarette with friends in small bar and walk home.

In a few people's eyes he was poor, in others he was richest man we could have known about.

Like everything it helps how you define the question.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 04:34
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We moved to West coast Canada 1988. A short while later I saw a report that said that a certain portion of the population was living in poverty and they had analysed it area by area. Apparently I was living in the area with the highest proportion of poverty stricken people in Canada, which was ironic because our area had the highest income per capita and the highest average property prices in the country. I certainly never saw, locally, anyone who could even be considered even close to the poverty line.

Turns out, similar to other places, poverty was defined as having a family income below a percentage of the local median. According to the report I and my family were totally poverty stricken living on our acre in the British properties and sending three kids to private school. It appeared the local food bank was set up for us. On the basis of the report they were soliciting donations for the impoverished inhabitants of West Vancouver.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 08:00
  #25 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
All I know is that amongst the pensioners of today there are many slippery, selfish disingenuous, self righteous individuals. The true "Thatcher" generation, Some of the worst kind pontificate on here, it obviously makes them feel a bit clever and smart. making up perhaps for real definciences in their professional lives.
Easy hit. Define many.

Are slippery, selfish disingenuous, self righteous individuals confined to "Thatcher generation," ?
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 08:12
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
All I know is that amongst the pensioners of today there are many slippery, selfish disingenuous, self righteous individuals. The true "Thatcher" generation, Some of the worst kind pontificate on here, it obviously makes them feel a bit clever and smart. making up perhaps for real definciences in their professional lives.
Not sure that the "Thatcher generation" have reached pension age yet. Thatcher ruled from 1979 to 1990, and arguably the worst excesses of greed that she promoted was the "yuppie" generation, and they came to prominence in the mid-1980's,and were primarily "generation X", so born in the 1960's and 70's.

Retirement age for someone born then is 66, I believe, so the oldest "generation X" person is still around 9 years away from retirement, hence there can be no "Thatcher generation" pensioners yet. I rather suspect that the greed induced by that woman's policies may be something that many of that greedy generation might wish to try and either forget, or correct, as they reach pension age.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 08:19
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
Proves my point exactly, thankyou sir, The simple selfish self righteous baby boomer generation.
An unemployed person today is better off than a solicitor, accountant or doctor was in the 1950s. Because of the wealth and quality of life that the boomer generation have created through hard work, enterprise, risk taking and belief.
Just now the largest transfer of wealth in all history is happening, from the boomer generation (who earned it) to the millenials (who didn't earn it).
John McDonnell, the shadow Chancellor, says that he wants to interrupt this wealth transfer and instead to sequester the money for the state to waste.
Yet many millenials are still dumb enough to vote Labour.

Last edited by Eclectic; 18th Jul 2019 at 08:52.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 11:17
  #28 (permalink)  
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Eclectic, you are by no means the only one to point out this transfer of wealth. Rotary International has been seeking that revenue stream for 20 years and I think had greatly exceeded its target already. Its main goal was to divert money from Governments to its own funds where they would sit as a capital resource and only interest income spent.

I suspect you are spot on that our Hover would spend the windfall.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 11:27
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
All I know is that amongst the pensioners of today there are many slippery, selfish disingenuous, self righteous individuals. The true "Thatcher" generation, Some of the worst kind pontificate on here, it obviously makes them feel a bit clever and smart. making up perhaps for real definciences in their professional lives.
Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
Of course, you were born qualified, with all the answers, you went straight to the top didn't you, because you were never a student and knew everything on day one. Yes? Oh, did you ever get to the top? or anywhere remotely near it??
Blimey, Who jangled your collection tin?
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 11:45
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I think the word poverty is part of the problem. People always seem to load it with their agenda.

I myself come from a family that was way down the social ladder and while I never starved or went without shoes, it did cost me years, possibly decades, to correct myself into somebody who is able to tap into the same life opportunities that middle class kids take for granted. And I know that I am an exception with that, most from my neighborhood never got past menial work, if any. I refuse to blame them alone if this is in fact the norm/a pattern, or fend their perspective off with "well that ain´t poverty if you have sneakers so STFU you commie" like so many will do. I also refuse to be silent about their generational pass-on of poor life choices for that matter. But it is also a reality that some good choices may be hard, alien, lonely and reward-delaying for them, while they are affirming and immediately rewarding for well off youngsters.

I would much prefer if the matter were broadly discussed as "underprivilege" or "deprived" instead of poverty. And those terms are definitely for real out there.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 13:14
  #31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Krautwald View Post
I think the word poverty is part of the problem. People always seem to load it with their agenda.

I myself come from a family that was way down the social ladder and while I never starved or went without shoes, it did cost me years, possibly decades, to correct myself into somebody who is able to tap into the same life opportunities that middle class kids take for granted. And I know that I am an exception with that, most from my neighborhood never got past menial work, if any. I refuse to blame them alone if this is in fact the norm/a pattern, or fend their perspective off with "well that ain´t poverty if you have sneakers so STFU you commie" like so many will do. I also refuse to be silent about their generational pass-on of poor life choices for that matter. But it is also a reality that some good choices may be hard, alien, lonely and reward-delaying for them, while they are affirming and immediately rewarding for well off youngsters.

I would much prefer if the matter were broadly discussed as "underprivilege" or "deprived" instead of poverty. And those terms are definitely for real out there.
Thats a very good point.

It seems that the term ‘poverty’ in its self is emotive is bandied about in the uk by politicians and the media. It’s all relative.
As Krautwald has related, my parents were Irish immigrants who, when they arrived in England, were by today’s standards very poor and although one of them was professionally qualified, did menial work to survive.

However basic their living conditions first were when they arrived, they clearly believed that they had better prospects over here than those they left in Ireland. I can remember my grandmother being appalled that anyone would accept benefits - she was incredibly proud about not relying on what she viewed as charity - and to be fair to them both, they worked their own way up the social ladder ending up in a house they had paid for and savings for old age. She would have viewed it as a shame and embarrassment to admit that they needed welfare of any sort.

There does seem to be a small social group (not everyone) that has a sense of entitlement to benefits and have no reluctance in claiming as much as possible.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 13:38
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I don't think your post answered my question to Gertrude the Wombat.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 13:49
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Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy View Post
Private Jet

I don't think your post answered my question to Gertrude the Wombat.
He's having a bad day. See his post #75 in the How You Met Your Partner thread.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 14:21
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Originally Posted by Economics101 View Post
When international institutions such as the World Bank talk about poverty in Africa and parts of Asia they use an absolute measure, such as income per person less than (say) $1.65 per day (adjusted for inflation from a base year etc, etc). Almost all the poverty numbers I have seen for the UK and elsewhere in Europe are relative poverty measures (such as less than 60% of median income).

The relative measures are really more about inequality rather then poverty. ...
In Africa you can probably throw up a grass hut or otherwise find extremely cheap shelter; in a first world country, housing is seriously expensive and if you lose your grip on housing, homelessness is extremely difficult to climb back out from. It is expensive to be poor; it's really hard to look for work when you don't have the cash for transport, clothes, etc; there's a point where you start to have enough money to do things better and your cost of living actually falls.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 15:02
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Originally Posted by nonsense View Post
In Africa you can probably throw up a grass hut or otherwise find extremely cheap shelter.
But can you get free at the point of use healthcare, dental care, prescriptions? Do you have access to education? Do you have a welfare safety net? Heck, do you even have sanitation and clean water?

Part of the problem with 'poverty' is that it's become politically weaponised. It's far to easy for people with an agenda to casually throw the word around.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 15:22
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
Proves my point exactly, thankyou sir, The simple selfish self righteous baby boomer generation.
The simply selfish generation you so gratuitously offend are the ones whose parents didn't have refrigerators, televisions, hot and cold running water, shat in a dunny out in the back yard and wiped their arse with newspaper. They had an incentive to achieve, unlike the later generations who expect to be spoon fed.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 15:28
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I read (just this week) that the majority of the rural population of India don't have access to a toilet
The country has continuously topped the chart for open defecation being practised by as many as 70 per cent of Indians in rural areas–or approximately 550 million people, according to UNICEF.
It's a very personal issue for every Indian girl and woman — access to toilets. Some 70 percent of households in India don't have access to toilets, whether in rural areas or urban slums. Roughly 60 percent of the country's 1.2 billion people still defecate in the open.
- though this is denied by the government.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 15:29
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Originally Posted by PinkusDickus View Post
The simply selfish generation you so gratuitously offend are the ones whose parents didn't have refrigerators, televisions, hot and cold running water, shat in a dunny out in the back yard and wiped their arse with newspaper. They had an incentive to achieve, unlike the later generations who expect to be spoon fed.
Well said.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 18:43
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I was under the impression that the subject raised is not the cause but effect of poverty. On that basis, the poor suffer poverty, what are its effects on a person in that state. The most acute and obvious are. homelessness and hunger, lack of shelter and food. causes for premature death from exposure and starvation. Does this state of affairs exist now in the UK, no I don`t think so, as I have not heard of any specific deaths reported for those reasons. The statistics appear to deal with deaths amongst the elderly as fuel related, which presumably mean, hypothermia and illness induced by lack of adequate heating in their homes. No one seems to have died for complete lack of food.
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Old 18th Jul 2019, 18:49
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Way better than it used to be.
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