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Dimwits out and about again

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Dimwits out and about again

Old 16th Jul 2019, 12:39
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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[color=left=#000000]The point I was trying (and failing, it seems) to make was that instead of towing painted plastic boats around behind big fossil-fuelled cars to make a point, this bunch would have a much more useful impact if they switched to trying to educate (ideally by example) that you don't have to go yelling on the streets to reduce our environmental impact, you can do a hell of a lot just by educating people, and helping them, to live a lower impact lifestyle. [/color]
Many of the minority groups who take this and similar actions for their cause do not appear to have the sense and intelligence to understand that concept, sensible and more likely to succeed that it may be, nor the irony of their actions given the subject matter they are trying to get across, yes they would be better served trying a less destructive means of getting their message across but it would appear they really are not bothered as they just feel it is something for them to rebel against the establishment and have their cause in the headlines, either that or they have not the knowledge or ability to actually try and educate, rather than annoy, the very people who could help their cause.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 12:55
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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I've seen a figure of 2 billion as a sustainable World Population living at European Levels of comfort, given current resource endowments and outputs.

As world population is already at three and a half times that and that any solution that mother nature produces will probably be cliff edge and catastrophic, resolution of over population through population control is gonna need a lot of visits to the "Snip, snip ahh !" clinic (Or genetic equivalent) and a shed load of other strategies to tied us over the "Consumption" gap i.e. off-planet resource harvesting ?

But it appears that, ultimately, rational-man planners will probably have to come-up with some other scheme for limiting earthly consumption and its outputs . . . . .Has this plan already been formulated and is it, even now being promulgated .. . . "America Fist" ?(Sorry, "First", although looking at the photograph, I may have been right first time) - Judging from the behaviour thus far its ROW that's going to get "Firsted".


Last edited by NAROBS; 16th Jul 2019 at 13:15.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 13:21
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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In the meantime, whilst you're waiting for your own personalised "Firsting", enjoy:-


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Old 16th Jul 2019, 13:32
  #24 (permalink)  
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The Aral Sea was once the fourth largest lake in the world. It's now a gloomy shadow of itself. The reason for this is past irrigation for cotton fields around the lake side. The cotton grown there has been almost exclusively used for the jean trouser/pantaloon industry. I believe that without the youngsters of today, the jean industry would collapse. Jeans were designed for life, you only need one pair at a time in your wardrobe, not a colour coded one for each weekday to add to the disappearance factor of the Aral Sea.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 13:33
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Being a bit grim, with a horrible analogy, maybe the dynamics of cancer progression give us a clue as to how things which we think are going "Sh*t-shaped" exponential actually turn out in the real world i.e. the sigmoidal curve and the gompertzian model (AKA Lorenz curve well known to new airframe evaluators) where the growth fraction reaches a maximum at approximately 30% of tumour volume then decreases with time, because the established tumour demands on inputs and its production of toxic outputs steadily provide a negative feed back impact on growth rate increase over time. No Human Race parallels there then.

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Old 16th Jul 2019, 15:08
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Can I claim the moral high ground over them on this over population business, since by choice I have no children (certainly that I know of!)? One reason being that the male radeng line - and a 50 year old female cousin - develop Type 2 diabetes in middle age. In my case, the endocrinologist told me "You got it in your early 50s because you were overweight. If you hadn't been, you would still have had it by the time you were 60".

I do wonder about these 'low energy' light bulb fads. It's very noticeable that old tungsten filament bulbs lasted a long time compared to modern halogen ones, so unless halogen ones need less energy to produce, there's no net gain. Same with LED - just how many kWH does it take produce LED lights and the resulting electromagnetic environmental radiation pollution from the inverters? Or, for that matter, to produce a square metre of photo-voltaic silicon and its inverter - and the electrolytic capacitors and ferrites? Bearing in mind that strong Mediterranean sunshine is 1146 w/sqm and overall efficiency is about 20% if you're lucky....

One answer must be to take two bricks to every male on these protests...as they say "It doesn't hurt if you keep your thumbs out of the way!"
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 15:41
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Of course, you could enhance your moral authority in respect of the brick application, if you were able to confirm beforehand, from the supplicant (?) that they had used "Filthy" language or been rude to you - bit rich, coming from someone who on hearing from his staff of the account of the political consequences of his latest denouement said he would be reproductively terminated at the polls. How rude.

Being a proximity Christian (Live next to a place of religious observance) and not with standing the ill-judged and premature actions of the British Brainwashing Corporation's rapid reaction smear squad (Who tasks them ? or wants to hear their pronouncements), I think the phrase "Shit-shaped exponential" ought to be included in that august tome "Jack Speak", if it isn't already - perhaps defined as a expletive used by missilemen, weapons range managers and the like, when a device comes off the rail and fails to go in the direction intended. Remind you of anyone ?

Trump, how rear echeleon/garrison is he ?

N.

Last edited by NAROBS; 17th Jul 2019 at 09:12.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 15:56
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Its sad that so many people ehre dismiss people like the protesters as Loonie lefties lesbian long haired layabouts.

yes they are not completely in the right but a protest has to be visible and while they may not have the right answers, as already pointed out smartphones dont use that much electricity but data centres are like a huge warehouse full of old fashioned electric fires in terms of energy turned into heat.

The point is tho that something has to be done otherwise we will condemn our descendent to hell basically and all these arguments about what does it matter in Uk compared to China etc ar spurious, we outsourced our smut and smog to China cos its cheap but it is also wrong as western technology for mining plastics recovery etc is probably more advanced and less harmful than just dumping it elsewhere. its also poor economics because those technologies will be vital in future years and we need to develop that in the west asap for economic reasons. We are already far far too dependent on China for key items of our economy.

So give them a break-without protesters you wouldn't have the vote, women wouldn't have the vote-and these people are angels compared to the suffragettes (who were of course also in the right ), there would be no employment rights etc etc and if they keep a few thousand city gamblers and marketing folks from being for work for a few days does that really matter.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 15:57
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
I do wonder about these 'low energy' light bulb fads. It's very noticeable that old tungsten filament bulbs lasted a long time compared to modern halogen ones, so unless halogen ones need less energy to produce, there's no net gain. Same with LED - just how many kWH does it take produce LED lights and the resulting electromagnetic environmental radiation pollution from the inverters? Or, for that matter, to produce a square metre of photo-voltaic silicon and its inverter - and the electrolytic capacitors and ferrites? Bearing in mind that strong Mediterranean sunshine is 1146 w/sqm and overall efficiency is about 20% if you're lucky....
We have 100% LED lights everywhere in the house. Built about 4 years ago now, and none of the lights have failed yet. Some have LEDs built in to the fitting, so I bought a few spares just in case, but haven't (yet) had to use any of them. The flush LED panels we have in the kitchen use about 6W each and are brighter than a 50 W halogen, with a nice warm colour. All run from a single 12 V switched mode power supply unit that seems to be about 90% efficient as far as I can tell. The life given in the spec for the LEDs seems to usually be around 20,000 hours or so, which is a heck of a lot better than the 1,000 to 2,000 hours quoted for normal tungsten bulbs.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 16:06
  #30 (permalink)  
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We have had our local streets converted to LED, much better than the orange glow in the sky, a nicer light all round with less light pollution and cheaper to run. Plus at night they reduce the amount on, so you get a better nights sleep, Well I do, as I had one outside my property and bedroom window height.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/new...roject-2816730



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Old 16th Jul 2019, 16:27
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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We've been gradually replacing all the lights in the house over the past five years and are now 100% LED. No failures yet.
Instant full brightness. No more getting ladders out to replace halogen security lights.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 09:07
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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One of the councils local to me has replaced its street lamps with LEDS, but as a cost saving measure, hasn't used new lamp standards or repositioned the old ones.

These particular LEDs have a more acute vertical angle with regard to the cut-off of illumination and have less of a "Spill light" each side of the main area of illumination compared to the haolgens they replaced. Therefore, ideally, the new lights need to be positioned at more frequent intervals than the old halogen lamp standards if gaps in illumination are to be avoided.

But they haven't been positioned closer because they've used the existing lamp standards and spacings, which were designed for halogens - obviously the upgrade was done with the benefit of Treasury funding restrictions and consequently, without the benefit of a street lighting consultant.

Whilst this defect in illumination might not be such a problem on-side roads, on main roads, with higher volumes of fast moving traffic, I've found it a real problem, in that, you get intense illumination whilst your next to one of these new lights and then, as one progresses fowards, you hit a zone of complete darkness (Because there's no spill light), where you can't even see pedestrians on the pavement or road-parked vehicles. IMHO, really dangerous.

Needless to say I've reported it to the council, several times, without effect. Meanwhile, the neighbouring council appreciated the effect and either re-positioned or inserted extra lamp standards.

But, there you go, I suppose that's nothing exceptionally unusual for the last 40 years of "Managed decline"

Last edited by NAROBS; 17th Jul 2019 at 12:35.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 12:20
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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There is a growing distinct worry that COSPAS/SARSAT capabilities are being degraded because of the large amount of noise being radiated from digital electronics including inverters for LED lighting and solar panels. Probably wouldn't be a problem in the authorities had actually enforced the regulations,. but Pandora's box has opened too far for that to help now..

Ans just how many kWh does it take to produce 1 sq.m of LED semiconductor material?
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 12:29
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Under Magaret Hilda's 40 year old doctrine industry was always s'possed to do it better than HMG - nowdays they cock-up in unison.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 12:31
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
There is a growing distinct worry that COSPAS/SARSAT capabilities are being degraded because of the large amount of noise being radiated from digital electronics including inverters for LED lighting and solar panels. Probably wouldn't be a problem in the authorities had actually enforced the regulations,. but Pandora's box has opened too far for that to help now..

Ans just how many kWh does it take to produce 1 sq.m of LED semiconductor material?
The savings, in cost and carbon, are in the non-recurring or recurring long-interval replacement bit . . . hopefully.

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Old 17th Jul 2019, 12:39
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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I did find that a newly purchased radio controlled clock couldn't receive GBR due to noise from a switch-mode PSU. But that was supplying a WiFi access point, not any of our LED lights which seem relatively clean.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 12:41
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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First World protest is delightfully hypocritical.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 12:42
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
Ans just how many kWh does it take to produce 1 sq.m of LED semiconductor material?
Very roughly it takes about 0.0153 kWh per mm˛ of finished semiconductor wafer (closest to an LED I could find quickly, and probably reasonably representative). Looking around, it seems that a typical LED chip rated at about 3 W measures around 0.75mm x 0.75mm, so has an area of around 0.5625mm˛, so a 3 W LED probably uses around 0.00860625 kWh to manufacture. If that LED is around 5 times more efficient than a tungsten lamp, and if we assume that a tungsten lamp needs no energy to manufacture it, then the LED will recover it's manufacturing embodied energy, from energy saved in use when compared to a tungsten bulb, after about 43 minutes of operation.

In reality the tungsten lamp will have an embodied energy in its manufacture, plus will need replacing several times during the life of an LED, so the payback time, in terms of recovering the embodied energy for the LED is probably a fair bit shorter than 43 minutes. I'll admit to being a bit surprised at these figures, but the source data came from an MIT study of the embodied energy at a major semiconductor fabrication plant in the US, so seems reliable. There will be embodied energy in the packaging, transport etc, but that's probably similar for both tungsten lams and LEDs.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 14:06
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Points to raise on an interesting thread.
1. Facebook et al's gathering of personal details is, obviously, MUCH greater than thought, given that so many contributors have details of the intended travel arrangements of the protestors.
2. Presumably there must, somewhere, be an accurate assessment of the energy (and its source and costs) required to produce all these marvellous new batteries and solar panels.
3. Pax B's reasoning as to the REAL problem (i.e. overpopulation) will only be solved by personal action (or, rather, INaction!), facilitated by intelligent Government action. (an oxymoron, perhaps?)
4. While admiring VP969's individual efforts, one must ask - What is most likely to 'nudge' the politicians into a response? ... VPs domestic arrangements or some dedicated activists operating in unison?
World population has more than doubled during my lifetime - NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with me (as far as I know!) At least two of our more high profile political 'celebrities' could have lead the way with a little more reproductive reticence!
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 14:44
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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You've already seen the start of the population growth reversal with falling fertility in Western Hemisphere populations. This is possibly a natural reaction to population density through some pollution vector, as yet not recognised/properly understood. But , I would suspect that its onset is unlikely to be quick enough to smooth the peak in 2050.

Wasn't one of the first mass reported indications (In the early 1980s) the disappearnce in male fish off the Florida Coast (Florida, THINKS. . .holiday home . . .explains a lot).

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