Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Sir Kim Darroch resigns -: Why ?

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Sir Kim Darroch resigns -: Why ?

Old 11th Jul 2019, 06:52
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Stockport MAN/EGCC
Age: 65
Posts: 784
Sir Kim Darroch resigns -: Why ?

Learned Contributors,
U.K. ambassador Sir Kim Darroch has resigned as ambassador to the U.S.A. following the ‘leak’ of diplomatic e-mails between Washington and London.
Does the team think the leak was -:
A) At the Washington end
B) At the London end
C) Snooping by CIA/NSA
D) Personal request from Trump’s team
Your comments and observations appreciated
Be lucky
David
The AvgasDinosaur is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 07:05
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
I don't think the leak was at the Washington end. The leaked emails were 2 years old, so someone had been sitting on them all this time waiting for an opportunity to use them for a worthwhile (in their view) purpose.

I don't think it was coincidental that these old emails were leaked towards the end of the Conservative party leadership campaign. Jeremy Hunt is responsible for the FCO, so arguably someone likely to be damaged by the leaking of confidential diplomatic briefs. Boris Johnson, on the other hand, seems to have chosen to remain non-committal about the affair, presumably because he sees that as a future advantage; sucking up to Trump has to be good for him re: his aspirations to be PM, so it could be argued that he has gained by these leaks.

I doubt that the content of these emails came as any surprise to the US State Department, either. They've pretty much been hinting at the same thing (albeit less bluntly) for some time. It's public knowledge that Trump's modus operandi is not to fire people, but to publicly ridicule them on social media until they find their position untenable. He does this without, apparently, any reference to his advisers in the administration, and it's a surprisingly effective way of getting rid of people he doesn't like, without actually having to do anything as specific as sacking them (or, in the case of Sir Kim Darroch, declaring them persona non grata).
VP959 is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 07:32
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: uk
Age: 62
Posts: 52
I would not be surprised if this leak had it's origin in a russian hacker's computer... Just a "feeling". A few minutes later you have a Hard Brexiter on BBC making a fool of himself promoting Faridge for the post of Ambassador in US!!!! Then BJ, then Trump... So obvious. Putin behind all this Brexit? It's funny how much money, Russian taxpayer money (officialy) going to French FN loans, Trump Towers, Banks, fake news on Media etc... etc...
alicopter is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 07:37
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,899
It’s very unlikely to have been at Trumps request. The leaks are damaging to him and all subsequent twitter hoo ha a limitation exercise. Equally hard to see any benefit to Boris or Jeremy Hunt. Sadly, whoever it was, and gaspingly unfair as it was, the ambassadors position WAS made untenable. In falling on his sword as he did, he demonstrated absolute professionalism to the last.
ShotOne is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 07:51
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: apogee
Age: 64
Posts: 59
He said some things that most everyone is already painfully aware of.
trump took another ego bashing. What number is that?
meadowrun is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 08:09
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,899
Similarly critical comments in 2010 by the US ambassador about Cameron didn’t result in anything like the same fallout.
ShotOne is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 08:45
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Under a tree in the NT
Posts: 87
It all seems like a text book (or wiki anyway) of bullying.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

"Bullying is the use of coercion, force, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or socialpower. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict."
NumptyAussie is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 09:04
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 317
Originally Posted by NumptyAussie View Post
It all seems like a text book (or wiki anyway) of bullying.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullying

"Bullying is the use of coercion, force, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate. The behavior is often repeated and habitual. One essential prerequisite is the perception (by the bully or by others) of an imbalance of physical or socialpower. This imbalance distinguishes bullying from conflict."
That does seem to sum up Trump pretty well.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 09:15
  #9 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 10,009
That does seem to sum up Trump pretty well.
And the UK Parliament.....

https://www.parliament.uk/documents/...iry-report.pdf

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...ssed-peers-new
ORAC is online now  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 10:01
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 5,969
New PM will appoint new ambassador. BoJo clear out in advance as it would look rude to sack him, doing it this way sends a message to others about getting on board or getting shafted,.

Love the idea that it is a Russian hack, basically it means Foreign office communication between Embassies is open and hacked by anybody, does GCHQ who get billions a year really want to run with that story. Could be embarassing as means they not doing their jobs, unless of course they need £10 billion.
racedo is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 10:11
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
What are the chances of any hacker holding on to stuff like this for 2 years before releasing it? Near-zero, I would have thought.

Worth remembering that the emails in question were written and sent in 2017, so whoever has leaked them most probably had access to them at that time, and made covert (and unlawful) copies, presumably with the intention of being able to use them at some future date.

This was not, it seems, just a spur-of-the-moment decision by someone with a grievance, it looks more like someone who collated confidential correspondence over a significant period of time.
VP959 is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 10:30
  #12 (permalink)  

Plastic PPRuNer
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 1,882
I wonder how many US ambassadors tell the State Department the truth as they see it (which is all that Darroch has done, his job)?

But the tradition in the UK, is that if there is a leak, never mind if it wasn't your fault, that you fall on your sword.
The Americans don't understand that. Joe Kennedy practically had to sing the Horst Wessel before being recalled.

So I reckon the leak was at home. I'll bet that that nasty little mischief-making Farage "acquired" it and blew the gaff.

Mac

:-o

Mac the Knife is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 10:45
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 317
I have no doubt whatever that diplomatic messages like these are routinely seen by US and Russian intelligence services, as being an important source of information about international relations.
Either of them might have passed on the details for their own particular motives.
But I'll put money on a domestic source being to blame, and I trust that they will be found and strung up to dry.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 10:48
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Stockport MAN/EGCC
Age: 65
Posts: 784
Thanks for your contributions so far, folks.
I wonder if Bellingcat will deign to enlighten us in due course ??
Be lucky
David
The AvgasDinosaur is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 10:51
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 72
Posts: 3,733
In answer to the original question I should think that Sir Kim thought that with less than 6 months to go before retirement why does he need the hassle of serving out his time in the toxic atmosphere of Washington when he can take the money and put his retirement plans into action 6 months earlier than planned.

I do hope his KCMG is advanced to GCMG at the earliest opportunity.
Tankertrashnav is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 10:52
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,899
Farage wouldn’t in any circumstances have had access (assuming you weren’t joking) and in any case this harms rather than helps his agenda.
ShotOne is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 11:04
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,215
The apparent air of surprise, outrage etc. over this matter I find puzzling. If you combine, as is the case, three odious characters such as Johnson, Farage and Trump there can, realistically, only be one outcome. None of them have generally accepted moral standards, they all have total, unremitting self-interest and surround themselves with 'yes-men' (and women!) to ensure minimum disturbance to their equanimity. In those circumstances, 'truth to power' doesn't stand a chance. Sycophancy has become' the currency of the 'climbers', both social and political. In spite of this disgusting cess-pit of international affairs, it is heartening to realise that there are still those who retain an element of decency. Parliament has not, over the past 3 years, covered itself with glory but this morning's 'urgent question' debate has demonstrated a sense of traditional values, across the House, to offer a little hope for the future. The great pity is that the 'Member for Uxbridge' was absent - possibly a very good thing for his over-weening self-confidence!
Cornish Jack is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 11:08
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Currently within the EU
Posts: 317
Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
The apparent air of surprise, outrage etc. over this matter I find puzzling. If you combine, as is the case, three odious characters such as Johnson, Farage and Trump there can, realistically, only be one outcome. None of them have generally accepted moral standards, they all have total, unremitting self-interest and surround themselves with 'yes-men' (and women!) to ensure minimum disturbance to their equanimity. In those circumstances, 'truth to power' doesn't stand a chance. Sycophancy has become' the currency of the 'climbers', both social and political. In spite of this disgusting cess-pit of international affairs, it is heartening to realise that there are still those who retain an element of decency. Parliament has not, over the past 3 years, covered itself with glory but this morning's 'urgent question' debate has demonstrated a sense of traditional values, across the House, to offer a little hope for the future. The great pity is that the 'Member for Uxbridge' was absent - possibly a very good thing for his over-weening self-confidence!
^^^^^
Very, very well said
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 11:26
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bognor Regis
Age: 69
Posts: 23
Sent in 2017? I can't seem to remember...who was Foreign Secretary in 2017? He might know what was going on
Redredrobin is offline  
Old 11th Jul 2019, 11:31
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by Redredrobin View Post
Sent in 2017? I can't seem to remember...who was Foreign Secretary in 2017? He might know what was going on
Excellent point!

I'd forgotten about Boris Johnson being Foreign Secretary at the time that these emails were sent. Interestingly they may well have briefs specifically for Boris Johnson, and that may explain his reticence in coming forward to support Sir Kim Darroch.
VP959 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.