Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

Moon Landing 50th anniversary

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

Moon Landing 50th anniversary

Old 9th Jul 2019, 02:49
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: surfing, watching for sharks
Posts: 3,761
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
A little perspective to add. When Kennedy issued his challenge, 'state of the art' for USA manned spaceflight was the Mercury Redstone - 66,000 lbs at liftoff and wasn't even capable of orbital flight, the total US manned space flight experience was about 15 minutes.
Just over 7 1/2 years later, a Saturn V, weighing nearly 100 times as much a liftoff, sent 3 astronauts into lunar orbit (Apollo 8), and of course 8 years and and two months after Kennedy's challenge, Neil and Buzz were walking on the moon.
Eight years ago today, the very last Space Shuttle mission was launched, in the eight years since that launch, the US still hasn't restored the capability for manned spaceflight and it's uncertain when if and when that ability will be available. NASA has morphed from a 'can do' organization in the 1960s to just another bureaucratic mess, while lean newcomers such as Space X have become the future of US spaceflight.
Thanks for the timeline perspective. I do hope we as a nation find something to collectively challenge us. Be that Mars, colonies on the moon or some other great space endeavor, I hope it happens. One thing for certain, a compressed Kennedy like timeline could never be met again.
West Coast is online now  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 04:58
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,085
I think the landing was somewhere around 9/9.30 with the EVA starting after midnight.
For the record on the timings from a British POV ( info from the NASA.history website )

Eagle Touchdown 2017:39 UTC ( 2117:39 BST) Sunday 20th July.

First Step 0256:15 UTC ( 0356:15 BST) Monday 21st July.

I suspect many of us in the Uk were dragged out of bed just after midnight but FWIW the preparations for the EVA and getting the hatch open took much longer than anybody had anticipated. ...)

https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.evaprep.html

We (Shropshire) had started our school holidays very early that year and had already had a week off before the landing.

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Jul 2019 at 06:49.
wiggy is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 07:26
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 126
I was only 2 years old when the Apollo 11 mission took place so obviously don't remember it very well! However, I now work in a related field thanks to what I learned about the whole Mercury and Apollo missions and having a father who was fascinated by science. I haven't seen the Apollo 11 film that yellowtriumph mentions, I hope to see it soon, but for those that haven't watched it before, I do recommend watching the miniseries "From the Earth to the Moon". OK, they did sounds in space, but other than that it's a fairly accurate and compelling story of the Apollo missions. And although it relates to a later story, the Apollo 13 movie is good and watching it with Jim Lovell's and his wife Marilyn's commentary is even better.
Hokulea is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 10:20
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 203
It is depressing to read the following quote from Wiki (assuming it is accurate):

Conspiracists have managed to sustain public interest in their theories for more than 40 years, despite the rebuttals and third-party evidence. Opinion polls taken in various locations have shown that between 6% and 20% of Americans, 25% of Britons, and 28% of Russians surveyed believe that the manned landings were faked. Even as late as 2001, the Fox television network documentary Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon? claimed NASA faked the first landing in 1969 to win the Space Race.[6]
james ozzie is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 10:50
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the ground
Posts: 345
Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
For the record on the timings from a British POV ( info from the NASA.history website )

Eagle Touchdown 2017:39 UTC ( 2117:39 BST) Sunday 20th July.

First Step 0256:15 UTC ( 0356:15 BST) Monday 21st July.
I remember watching the "first step" as a 6yo child sat cross legged in a sea of small children in the loungeroom of a home across the street from my primary school in Australia. I had trouble recently reconciling what I knew I'd seen with touchdown at 20:17 UTC = 04:17 AEST Monday. First step at ~03:00 UTC would be 13:00 on the Australian east coast, which makes much more sense!
nonsense is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 10:57
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 192
The reason I'd remembered the UK times so well was that after watching the landing I stayed up to watch the 'moon walk'. Unfortunately I fell asleep on the sofa and woke up to see a shadowy shape heading back up the ladder, by which time he'd walked quite a few 'small steps' and I had missed them all!
Teevee is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 11:11
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: France
Age: 65
Posts: 63
Originally Posted by james ozzie View Post
It is depressing to read the following quote from Wiki (assuming it is accurate):

Conspiracists have managed to sustain public interest in their theories for more than 40 years, despite the rebuttals and third-party evidence. Opinion polls taken in various locations have shown that between 6% and 20% of Americans, 25% of Britons, and 28% of Russians surveyed believe that the manned landings were faked. Even as late as 2001, the Fox television network documentary Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on the Moon? claimed NASA faked the first landing in 1969 to win the Space Race.[6]
I suppose the film "Capricorn One" would have fuelled their doubt a bit as well.

Last edited by Repos; 9th Jul 2019 at 11:31. Reason: spelling
Repos is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 13:08
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 318
The Apollo film I mentioned earlier naturally includes the famous quote from Armstrong and as we know there is some controversy over it. At the appropriate point in the film I strained forward to make sure I was listening carefully.,

In this film, which prides itself on using actuality footage, he clearly says 'That's one small step for man ..." he does not say "That's one small step for a man ..".
yellowtriumph is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 13:19
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,085
You are right in that there certainly was controversy over what was said, certainly immediately following the flight, but I think it's become generally accepted over the years that 'a' is not audible/detectable in any of the audio records.

Quite reasonably Armstrong maintained he meant to say ''a', and thought he did so ...Here's the relevant extract from the Lunar Surface Journal..

109:24:23 Armstrong: That's one small step for (a) man; one giant leap for mankind. (Long Pause)

At the time of the mission, the world heard Neil say "That's one small step for man; one giant leap for mankind". As Andrew Chaikin details in A Man on the Moon, after the mission, Neil said that he had intended to say 'one small step for a man' and believed that he had done so. However, he also agreed that the 'a' didn't seem to be audible in the recordings.

The important point is that the world had no problem understanding his meaning. However, over the decades, people interested in details of the mission - including your editor - have listened repeatedly to the recordings, without hearing any convincing evidence of the 'a'. In 2006, with a great deal of attendant media attention, journalist/ entrepreneur Peter Shann Ford claimed to have located the 'a' in the waveform of Neil's transmission. Subsequently, more rigorous analyses of the transmission were undertaken by people with professional experience with audio waveforms and, most importantly, audio spectrograms. None of these analyses support Ford's conclusion. The transcription used above honors Neil's intent.
https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/a11.step.html

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Jul 2019 at 13:37.
wiggy is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 13:51
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 235
Was 17 at the time and had to cycle 60 miles home from a family holiday to watch the launch and subsequent landing. Being a UK citizen I realised I had little chance of actually working within NASA (I know some people did) so remained in aviation and followed the space programs from a distance, still do, with SpaceX really making it exciting again.
Never directly met any of the astronauts but stood next to Dave Scott at an NBAA a few years ago and have a signed copy of Gene Cernan's book. What they did give me was inspiration in aviation.
Like some others I still remember the wonder of looking up at the moon and realising men were there. The engineering always fascinated me and I've more books than sensible on the technical aspects! Always expected to see them return but what they did and in the time frame was amazing that we can't seem to do today even with all our computing power. I suppose cost, political will, health and safety, and public opinion are the reason.
I will have many awesome memories come back on the 20/21st July
Must dig out the telescope for next week.
Mike Echo is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2019, 14:36
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,085
Originally Posted by Mike Echo View Post
Always expected to see them return but what they did and in the time frame was amazing that we can't seem to do today even with all our computing power.
Whilst today's computing power might help speed a modern program at the design stage ( thinking of e.g. the aerodynamics of reentry, modelling what goes on in the engines) I think as far as flight is involved in the 60's they already had enough computing power (on the ground plus on-board) plus enough smart mathematicians, plus, at the sharp end of it all 2 pilots and Mark one eyeball to perform "pinpoint" landings on the flights that landed after 11. I'm not sure how much our modern computing would really significantly improve on that, other than I guess drive fancier on-board displays and perhaps reduce the amount of support needed on the ground.

The reason "we" haven't returned comes under the headings of cost, politics, priorities and also the fact modern administrations are much more risk averse..there is no way a modern NASA would have given approval for a mission such as Apollo 8.

Last edited by wiggy; 9th Jul 2019 at 20:39.
wiggy is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 06:34
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,085
"It took 400,000 Nasa employees and contractors to put Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin on the moon in 1969 – but only one man to spread the idea that it was all a hoax":


. https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ngs-were-faked
wiggy is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 07:12
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 66
Posts: 3,225
Originally Posted by Hokulea View Post
I was only 2 years old when the Apollo 11 mission took place so obviously don't remember it very well! However, I now work in a related field thanks to what I learned about the whole Mercury and Apollo missions and having a father who was fascinated by science. I haven't seen the Apollo 11 film that yellowtriumph mentions, I hope to see it soon, but for those that haven't watched it before, I do recommend watching the miniseries "From the Earth to the Moon". OK, they did sounds in space, but other than that it's a fairly accurate and compelling story of the Apollo missions. And although it relates to a later story, the Apollo 13 movie is good and watching it with Jim Lovell's and his wife Marilyn's commentary is even better.
I'd second Hokulea's recommendation of "From the Earth to the Moon" - very well done and historically accurate. For the younger folks who don't know the history of the 1960's space race, it's a great educational series. "Apollo 13" is also worth watching - and yes the Lovell commentary is wonderful. There is a DVD of "Moon Machines" that covers the engineering development side that is quite good (and naturally appeals to the engineer in me).
"First Man" left me cold, but the "Apollo 11" documentary is great. Perhaps the best space race documentary (at least from the US side) is "Moon Shot" - written by Deke Slaton and Alan Shepard. Unfortunately while the companion book is still available, for some bizarre reason it's only available on VHS tape - no DVD release.

BTW, I've found the easiest way to blow the mind of a 'Moon landing was a hoax' conspiracy nut is to ask them why the Soviets would have gone along with it. After all, they had a similar ability to the Americans ability to track and listen to the Apollo missions - if there was anything hokey about it they would have certainly known.
tdracer is online now  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 07:49
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 126
tdracer- although I was a bit too young to be carrying out Apollo 11 tracking experiments at school, I do know people who did that as part of their science education in the UK. I'm sure the same thing happened all over the world. You had to make sure your antenna was pointed correctly, i.e., towards the moon, in order to do that. Back then there was no suggestion the moon landing was a hoax. "Capricorn One" started it all and it sort of died away, but then came the internet and Fox's now infamous "documentary" about how the landings were faked. There is now a generation that will believe anything if it's shown on TV or the internet and listening to boring scientists won't change their mind.

Ironically, although I fully support increasing broadband internet to everyone, some companies are now launching hundreds of mini-satellites into orbit to do this, and by doing so might well be making space travel much more dangerous. As I understand things they are trying to mitigate the effect of so many more objects in low earth orbit, but we only need a collision or two to create utter chaos. It's the one thing the movie "Gravity" actually got right.
Hokulea is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 08:51
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,085
Kettering Grammar school had a group were very active in tracking stuff in Earth Orbit in the 60's. and later

https://spacecentre.co.uk/blog-post/...g-radio-group/

There were one or two radio amateurs who claim to have received "voice" from Apollo spacecraft on or in the vicinity of the Moon... Given the size of the antennas NASA used as part of their Manned Spaceflight Network to support Apollo TBH I'm surprised that was possible with a back yard set up - would be interested other's POV on that.
wiggy is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 08:58
  #36 (permalink)  
short flights long nights
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 3,258
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
I'd second Hokulea's recommendation of "From the Earth to the Moon" - very well done and historically accurate. For the younger folks who don't know the history of the 1960's space race, it's a great educational series. "Apollo 13" is also worth watching - and yes the Lovell commentary is wonderful. There is a DVD of "Moon Machines" that covers the engineering development side that is quite good (and naturally appeals to the engineer in me).
"First Man" left me cold, but the "Apollo 11" documentary is great. Perhaps the best space race documentary (at least from the US side) is "Moon Shot" - written by Deke Slaton and Alan Shepard. Unfortunately while the companion book is still available, for some bizarre reason it's only available on VHS tape - no DVD release.

BTW, I've found the easiest way to blow the mind of a 'Moon landing was a hoax' conspiracy nut is to ask them why the Soviets would have gone along with it. After all, they had a similar ability to the Americans ability to track and listen to the Apollo missions - if there was anything hokey about it they would have certainly known.
I also love ‘ From the Earth to the moon’... nothing short of brilliant!!
SOPS is online now  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 08:58
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 126
Long time ago now, but the people I spoke to didn't actually listen in to the communications but were able to detect the spacecraft from their transmissions. Oddly enough, Kettering Grammar school rings a bell! I'll see if I can find out more.
Hokulea is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 09:05
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 192
Gene Krantz's book 'Failure is not an option' gives some very interesting insights too.
Teevee is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 11:32
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Uk
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
BTW, I've found the easiest way to blow the mind of a 'Moon landing was a hoax' conspiracy nut is to ask them why the Soviets would have gone along with it. After all, they had a similar ability to the Americans ability to track and listen to the Apollo missions - if there was anything hokey about it they would have certainly known.
My father died a couple of months ago,leaving behind a note on the mantelpiece. We'd knew that he was a telecoms engineer and specialised in International telecoms but it turns out that he was part of the GPO (now BT) team in the 1960s and 70s that was working with NASA tracking the missions and relaying communications - as well as cooperation with the US military. In his note he stated that they tracked the signals up to and around the moon so was confident that they originated from the right place. And he heard the Apollo 13 alarms and "Houston, we've had a problem" live and first hand.

Why this was never casually mentioned during his lifetime I shall always regret and never know.
Snyggapa is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2019, 13:00
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Search me - I only just got out of bed ....
Age: 76
Posts: 484
No-one has mentioned Mr Gorsky so far ....

(Oh shyte! I just did ....)

Google the gentleman's name perhaps if you've never met him .
FullOppositeRudder is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.