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A state sponsored killing question...

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A state sponsored killing question...

Old 13th Jun 2019, 16:21
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Slartibartfast
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 18:39
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by k3k3 View Post
Slartibartfast
Ah, him. Must read more.
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Old 13th Jun 2019, 23:00
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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It's thanks to him that your country has all those award winning fjords.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 00:26
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Love the crinkly bits...
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 01:12
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by k3k3 View Post
It's thanks to him that your country has all those award winning fjords.
And we are just so grateful.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 08:13
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
In my lifetime in UK there was Birmingham 6, Guildford 4.........
Maybe memory fails me, but I don't recall these people being killed by the UK?
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 08:28
  #47 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Maybe memory fails me, but I don't recall these people being killed by the UK?
Correct, your memory hasn't failed you.

What has failed you however, is the inability to grasp that, if, and thankfully we don't, we still had the death penalty, then they would have certainly been executed.

Of course, this would subsequently just be classed, by some, as " unfortunate" by virtue of upholding the rule of law.............as they were subsequently proven to be innocent

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Old 14th Jun 2019, 09:21
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Correct, your memory hasn't failed you.

What has failed you however, is the inability to grasp that, if, and thankfully we don't, we still had the death penalty, then they would have certainly been executed.

Of course, this would subsequently just be classed, by some, as " unfortunate" by virtue of upholding the rule of law.............as they were subsequently proven to be innocent
Quite agree.

I imagine that’s why the US death row system is so drawn out - sometimes over decades - not necessarily for lawyers to get rich, but to ensure that every avenue of guilt, every piece of evidence and every technicality have been exhausted.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 09:39
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Earlier in this thread there was a question about why it seems so difficult to humanely end a life. Leaving aside the issue of whether the death penalty is just (I'm far from convinced it is), why can't a similar approach be taken to that used for euthanasia? According to this article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/storie...ng-the-patient around 6 people a day are euthanised in Belgium, presumably humanely.

Last edited by VP959; 14th Jun 2019 at 09:45. Reason: typo
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 09:41
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Correct, your memory hasn't failed you. What has failed you however, is the inability to grasp that, if, and thankfully we don't, we still had the death penalty, then they would have certainly been executed.
Fair point.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 10:06
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
This was done so if anybody goes to China and gets a bit carried away it is the ultimate penalty.

Women can walk in comparative safety 24/7 and parents can let their kids play in the streets without any concerns.
And there's plenty of countries that are even safer that have long since abolished the death penalty. Switzerland, Norway, the Netherlands, Slovenia, Iceland and the Czech Republic have lower homicide rates, and larger nations like Italy, Spain, Poland and Greece are all comparative. As I posted previously there's no evidence the death penalty deters crime, and the only Western country that employs the death penalty , the USA, has a murder rate 5 times higher than the Western European nations who ban it. The numbers speak for themselves.

List of countries by intentional homicide rate
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 10:13
  #52 (permalink)  
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why can't a similar approach be taken to that used for euthanasia? According to this article https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/storie...ng-the-patient around 6 people a day are euthanised in Belgium, presumably humanely.
Which is what I posted earlier about my recent surgery, general anaesthetic, out to the world!! In fact if the anaesthetist doesn't 'brng you back', you're going to die anyway! Actually don't anaesthetisits have the highest suicide rate of medical professionals due to the ones they 'lost' on the table?
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 10:14
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Maybe memory fails me, but I don't recall these people being killed by the UK?

Here's a couple of British wrongly executed.

Derek Bentley, hanged in 1953 despite not having even pulled the trigger in a police shooting event.

Derek Bentley case

Timothy Evans, hanged in 1950 and later pardoned for a murder actually committed by his neighbour, serial killer John Christie.

Timothy John Evans

Mahmood Mattan, hanged in 1952 in Cardiff and pardoned 45 years later

Mahmood Hussein Mattan
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 12:35
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Actually don't anaesthetisits have the highest suicide rate of medical professionals due to the ones they 'lost' on the table?
I thought that it was vets in Australia, but in either case, it's probably due to the ready availability of the necessary 'medications'.

Had a vet friend chronically ill, who said that he had all the gear ready to see himself off when the time came, but he actually died in hospital, despite knowing for about a month that his condition was terminal.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 13:02
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, it is an amazing fact that the irony of killing someone for killing someone is lost on so many...
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 17:58
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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In a BBC documentary about the US system it was pointed out to a sheriff that the methos used in his county was painful and that there were more humane methods to kill people. His reply was "That is why we prefer our method".
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 20:55
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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How do they do it at dignitas?
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 22:26
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I doubt there's any method more humane than a well aimed large caliber bullet to the brain. The issue is that it leaves a big mess to clean up. I think the question we really need to ask is why those who believe in the death penalty are so keen to sanitise it.

One of the more humane methods of death would be to asphyxiate people with an inert gas. But which country wants to be the next to have a gas chamber?

A few other methods I can think of might be a little too accessible. I wonder whether there is a reluctance to disseminate methods that might become popular forms of suicide.
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 22:44
  #59 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by abgd View Post
I doubt there's any method more humane than a well aimed large caliber bullet to the brain.
I think it would be quick and relatively painless, given the rapid destruction of the brain - which is the centre of pain feelings.

Originally Posted by abgd View Post
One of the more humane methods of death would be to asphyxiate people with an inert gas.
I believe that CO2 is what is now used in some abattoirs?
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Old 14th Jun 2019, 23:27
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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The best common inert gas to asphyxiate a person (or animal) is good old nitrogen. I saw a British doco about it, painless, quite fast, very accessible.

I think it was the same doco that funfly referred to above.

CO2 is painful and nasty. I did fire service training, and remember the exposure to breathing concentrated CO2 well. It's the gas responsible for the feelings of "must breathe NOW" when your lungs are begging for fresh air. It also forms an acid on exposure to moisture which is painful in the sinuses first, the lower bits of respiratory passages second.
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