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Borris next PM?

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Borris next PM?

Old 19th May 2019, 07:41
  #61 (permalink)  
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Andrewn, I can speak of one MP. Father had been MP and MEP. Husband very senior in business. A barrister on the path to silk.

She was 'making a difference' one person at a time. She became an MP as an opportunity to make a bigger difference to many. Not sure if she is or can make a difference.

Clearly not in it for the money or the life style.
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Old 19th May 2019, 08:19
  #62 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Hyperdark View Post
Aaah, the lying attention seeker with his fingerprints all over the September document that took us into War on false premise eh?
That people still give validity to the comments of such fakers and charlatans is a sad indication of how far UK politics has descended into farce


Well done ! ..partially correct in that he was involved with the infamous dossiers. Unfortunately, you missed out his position at the time and also the sources of information giving impetus to the veracity of these documents. He's never been one of the fakers in life either, remarkably and refreshingly candid in fact with regard to his personal circumstances .

But, you will be pleased to learn, I am among the millions who are in total agreement with your perception of Boris.......as underlined above .

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Old 19th May 2019, 10:14
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
He's never been one of the fakers in life either............
Campbell was a Spin Doctor. Faking is what he did. The 'Dodgy Dossier' being the most infamous example.
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Old 19th May 2019, 14:48
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Campbell was a Spin Doctor. Faking is what he did. The 'Dodgy Dossier' being the most infamous example.
I had the dubious opportunity of hearing him deliver a presentation to members of the business community in the city. I remember thinking at the time, not only could he sell ice to eskimos in winter, but that he could make it look like a gilt-edged investment.

A living, slippery, legless tube if ever I saw one. Not even Bliar could resist his silver tongue and hypnotic stare. In my time, I have witnessed politicians expounding on their latest soapbox, but they were rank amateurs alongside Campbell. I bought a signed copy of his book out of curiosity, but it quickly reached terminal velocity on it's way to the bottom of the trash bin. Even now, on TV, he still gives me the shivers.

IG.
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Old 19th May 2019, 15:54
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Speaking objectively, as a Spin Doctor - sorry, Media Advisor - he was without peer. He shouldn't have been able to get away with some of the things he did, but the media seemed to be in equal parts mesmerised by him and absolutely terrified by him.

At the same time, there was something mentally not quite right about him. And I'm not talking about his depression. There was an obsessive trait in his behaviour, hints that underneath the steely exterior he was a man who was permanently angry to the point of being virtually unhinged. I truly believe he was quite willing to do anything to defend his master.
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Old 19th May 2019, 16:27
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It is my contention that in many areas, he crossed the line between spin doctor and political strategist. However, that became an enormously challenging platform to occupy and due to his un-elected status, he was not permitted to take responsibility for the decisions he was obviously involved in.

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Old 19th May 2019, 16:55
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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The few times I go to the UK these days I bring bottled water.
The well is clearly poisoned.

But Seriously.
You all deserve better.
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Old 19th May 2019, 17:13
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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BluSdUp - accurate summing up and kind thought but not ALL deserve better ...just the majority 29,400,000 who did NOT vote for Brexit!!
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Old 19th May 2019, 17:16
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And a bigger majority that didn't vote against.............
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Old 20th May 2019, 05:54
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In keeping with the long held JB tradition , a suitably lopsided denigration of Campbell duly emerges. He features in a BBC programme about depression, Tuesday, 2100, for those who may be interested. As a fellow sufferer over the years, the content will be interesting to watch.

Of course, since his position clearly influenced UK policy, then clearly one Bernard Ingham was but a simple scribe, who was only faithfully promoting the values and policies dictated to him.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Ingham

Back to Boris........

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...y-party-leader
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Old 20th May 2019, 08:09
  #71 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Speaking objectively, as a Spin Doctor - sorry, Media Advisor - he was without peer. He shouldn't have been able to get away with some of the things he did, but the media seemed to be in equal parts mesmerised by him and absolutely terrified by him.
I saw him being interviewed last week. Very powerful argument, really exposed Johnson for what he is. Very persuasive.

Then you step back. Exactly what choice do we have? There are the Lib Dems and I shall leave plaudits and brickbats to others. Labour whose leader is seen as a popular liability but no obvious move to replace him and the party of disarray.

BoJo, like Thatcher, has supporters and enemies alike but appears to have the support of a significant number of the Parliamentary party. If he unites the party, and with 66% support in the house, is there any reason to believe that the tweed suit and blue rinse rank and file would not fall in to line?

The question therefore is would a well known charismatic figure gain more popular votes?

​​​​​​Outside Parliament many are disenchanted with the traditional parties. Would they support a minority party or abstain? My tuppence is that abstainers would outnumber voters.
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Old 20th May 2019, 08:30
  #72 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I saw him being interviewed last week. Very powerful argument, really exposed Johnson for what he is. Very persuasive.

BoJo, like Thatcher, has supporters and enemies alike but appears to have the support of a significant number of the Parliamentary party. If he unites the party, and with 66% support in the house, is there any reason to believe that the tweed suit and blue rinse rank and file would not fall in to line?


​​​​​​.
Now that is interesting to read because, in #52, you were extoling the virtues of Boris.......not that Boris has any that is.

" Churchill was a leader, Atlee was a leader, Wilson and Thatcher were leaders though the latter was also divisive.

Johnson is divisive but I think also a leader.
Hillary Benn is not as his father but is certainly better than most in the party.
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Old 20th May 2019, 10:57
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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If you were looking to employ Boris, his references suggest he was OK as Mayor of London but out of his depth as a Cabinet Minister. So why would I want to consider him for an office clearly beyond his capabilities?

Then again, it isn't that uncommon that business leaders are often promoted way beyond their capabilities.

This suggests we need a new way to appoint people into positions of power both in politics and business.

Answers on a postcard please.
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Old 20th May 2019, 11:12
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Presumably "OK as Mayor of London" would include his costly purchase of unusable second-hand water cannon. His Ministerial efforts include 'help' for Nazanin Zighari-Ratcliffe and his musical interlude in the Rangoon temple (saved by the Ambassador) among other little gems. Such talents deserve recognition and reward of high office - possibly a Portacabin on top of Ben Nevis?
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Old 20th May 2019, 11:19
  #75 (permalink)  
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Boris bought the cannon in 2014 as a crowd control measure - May banned their use in 2015 as a deliberate attempt to embarrass Boris as a political rival.
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Old 20th May 2019, 11:52
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Of course, since his position clearly influenced UK policy, then clearly one Bernard Ingham was but a simple scribe, who was only faithfully promoting the values and policies dictated to him.
Bernard Ingham was a career Civil Servant who worked for governments of all colours.

Alistair Campbell was a ferociously partisan Labour hack who was parachuted into the civil service at a very senior level after Blair's 1997 election victory.

There is a fundamental difference between the two.
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Old 20th May 2019, 13:41
  #77 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Andy_S View Post
Bernard Ingham was a career Civil Servant who worked for governments of all colours.

Alistair Campbell was a ferociously partisan Labour hack who was parachuted into the civil service at a very senior level after Blair's 1997 election victory.

There is a fundamental difference between the two.
That's almost factually correct enough to be published in the Mail. True, Ingham was a career CS and he did serve both political hues.....however, he's widely credited as being the first in such an appointment to utilise the concept of spin and develop this during his time being a very partisan press secretary to the unlamented deceased....about 11 years in fact.

Campbell however, was never a CS..... he was a special advisor, There's a fundamental difference as you said with regard to the status he had.

No we've cleared up your confusion, how's the list of supportive reasons for Boris being the next PM coming along ?



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Old 20th May 2019, 14:36
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Now Krystal, that you have cleared up all of our confusion, and discounted any qualifications that BOJO may have, can we assume that your believe that the only creditable alternative Prime Minister may not yet be an MP?

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Old 20th May 2019, 15:58
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Presumably "OK as Mayor of London" would include his costly purchase of unusable second-hand water cannon. His Ministerial efforts include 'help' for Nazanin Zighari-Ratcliffe and his musical interlude in the Rangoon temple (saved by the Ambassador) among other little gems. Such talents deserve recognition and reward of high office - possibly a Portacabin on top of Ben Nevis?
'Ok as Mayor of London' as in beating Labour's Ken Livingston. Twice.
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Old 20th May 2019, 16:06
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
That's almost factually correct enough to be published in the Mail. True, Ingham was a career CS and he did serve both political hues.....however, he's widely credited as being the first in such an appointment to utilise the concept of spin and develop this during his time being a very partisan press secretary to the unlamented deceased....about 11 years in fact.

Campbell however, was never a CS..... he was a special advisor, There's a fundamental difference as you said with regard to the status he had.

No we've cleared up your confusion, how's the list of supportive reasons for Boris being the next PM coming along ?
My bold. True enough KnC, but I think it would also be reasonable to accept that he had the power and authority to issue orders to CS members of staff. In which case one might say he had the authority without the baggage.

Last edited by yellowtriumph; 20th May 2019 at 16:55.
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