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Borris next PM?

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Borris next PM?

Old 30th May 2019, 11:13
  #181 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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The breakup of the UK started with the GFA.

I thiught it it was generally accepted the terms of the GFA, with a referendum when the time was right, was an acknowledgement that the demographics of catholic, nationalist, population were such that they would form a majority with 2 generations and vote for a united Ireland. The only question being when, not if.

Which is why I wasn’t, and aren’t, too worried about the backstop, the problem was bound to go away, either before or shortly after it was due to be enforced.

As for Scotland, if they wish to go, let them do so. Perhaps it’s my Irish roots but I always felt slight slightly uneasy at being in a union where 300 Scots aristocrats sold out their country for monetary gain. And I certainly wouldn’t agree to any more money in the way of payments or jobs sent to the north to persuade them to stay.

The present Union came into being, as such, with the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1921. The centenary would be a good time to address how long it might last.
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Old 30th May 2019, 13:02
  #182 (permalink)  
 
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I for one look forward to the day when the flag of St George is raised above the English parliament. Independent at last, freed from the burden of looking after and paying for the ungrateful conquered peoples surrounding them.

Free again to be an independent seafaring, trading nation sailing the seven seas colonising....... sorry peacefully trading with the world.

With King Boris the first at helm. Well he has Royal blood!

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Old 30th May 2019, 13:05
  #183 (permalink)  
 
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Those who have said that the Irish border problem can be solved with technology will find the same argument used against them when they try to raise the border issue as an objection to Scottish independence.
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Old 30th May 2019, 14:39
  #184 (permalink)  
 
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Much as I dislike the idea of Boris as PM - or in any job other than Parliamentary jester - this court case is reminiscent of the Star Chamber as well as the dubious methods used by governments in the 17th and early 18th centuries. If complainant is to be even handed, then he should also be prosecuting Tony Blair for the same reasons. The fact that he hasn't done so says that it is purely a political ploy.......
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Old 30th May 2019, 15:09
  #185 (permalink)  
 
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NoelEvans.

"The people said it clearly on 23 June 2016 and again on 23 May 2019."

But that's the problem, they didn't did they? 48/52 and 36/40 is NOT a clear and significant majority, in fact they directly contradict one another as well as being incredibly close. The country is split, Parliament is split, individual Parties are, in the main, split, so Parliament is merely reflecting the country, which IS democracy in action and not the disaster some seem to think. What should have happened is that the referendum should have required a clear defined majority, along the lines of the 1970's Scottish Independence referendum when they actually won, but not by enough to justify the changing of the status quo.
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Old 30th May 2019, 15:10
  #186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
It grieves me to agree with you racedo, but I have to do so.
One of us need a shower as it is a unclean moment
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Old 30th May 2019, 15:31
  #187 (permalink)  
 
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British?

What does that mean exactly? Britain is a united kingdom of countries, England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. As most of the "uniting' seemed to involve English conquest and colonisation it is no surprise that it is mainly the English that call themselves British, with a good percentage of Ulster Unionists and Scots, and the the Scots, The Northern Irish nationalists and Welsh Nationalists calling themselves Irish, Scottish and Welsh respectively.
IF the peoples of the constituent countries of the Kingdom no longer wish to remain within it then they should have the right to leave, but it is still seen in many quarters that the UK is England and its possessions, and that must rankle with the rest. The break up of the UK will undoubtedly follow on from Brexit, Scotland first, then a considerable period later Irish unification. I doubt if Wales would have sufficient appetite to go it alone. Would that be a bad thing?

Back to Boris...
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Old 30th May 2019, 15:59
  #188 (permalink)  
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" Back to Boris....."

Quite, albeit not entirely Boris. Quite how the three narcissists will get along remains unclear, but, it's nice to see kindred spirits embracing each other and those kind words from Donald will doubtless boost Boris and Nige's morale.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48462677
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Old 30th May 2019, 16:20
  #189 (permalink)  
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Pr00ne, I beg to differ. There is many a true Englishman born and bred that scorns the identity British. One I know who is proud to call himself British was born in Calcutta and I think this is true of many British Citizens with right of abode in the UK but who were not born in the British Isles.

I share roots with a cousin back in 18th C Westmoreland. He regards himself as Scottish as that is where he grew up even though his father was from the Wirral where he was born.

British is a modern political construct.
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Old 30th May 2019, 16:42
  #190 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Those who have said that the Irish border problem can be solved with technology will find the same argument used against them when they try to raise the border issue as an objection to Scottish independence.
Perhaps. I sense the tide is turning and when there is another Scottish independence referendum a majority of the rest of the UK will simply say if you want to go, then go. I don't think there will be the same public in depth discussion and arguments as there were over the last independence vote. I wonder then if those Scots who want independence will think that since 'the English' are happy for them to leave and put up no real fight or justification for them to remain that they will think it must be a cunning trap of some sort. I will go further and say I think the rest of the UK will positively facilitate Scotland leaving. Who knows? Of course it is a subject for another day.

Last edited by yellowtriumph; 30th May 2019 at 17:55.
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Old 30th May 2019, 17:55
  #191 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Pr00ne, I beg to differ. There is many a true Englishman born and bred that scorns the identity British. One I know who is proud to call himself British was born in Calcutta and I think this is true of many British Citizens with right of abode in the UK but who were not born in the British Isles.

I share roots with a cousin back in 18th C Westmoreland. He regards himself as Scottish as that is where he grew up even though his father was from the Wirral where he was born.

British is a modern political construct.
Pontius Navigator,
I'm sure that these folk do exist, as you say, but I doubt that they are any kind of majority. And what are they going to do when Scotland seeks and gains its independence, and Britain becomes just an outdated geographical description? There will be no Britain to enable them to claim to be, or feel, British? I rather like the idea put forward by Nicola Sturgeon, "you are Scottish if you choose to make your home in Scotland. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that post independence there will be an England-Scotland CTA in the same way as there is between the UK and Ireland and has been for generations, so in that Common Travel Area everyone living in England and Scotland will have the right to live, work, be educated, retire, draw pensions and be looked after health wise in both countries just as the whole population of the Uk and Ireland have now.

And now back to that American Boris...
,
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Old 30th May 2019, 17:56
  #192 (permalink)  
 
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yellowtriumph,

The rest of the UK will not get a say, just as last time, when only Scottish residents were entitled to vote.
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Old 31st May 2019, 08:29
  #193 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
yellowtriumph,

The rest of the UK will not get a say, just as last time, when only Scottish residents were entitled to vote.
I did not say the rest of the UK will get a vote.

I said "I don't think there will be the same public in depth discussion and arguments as there were over the last independence vote.". The rest of the UK will inevitably be involved in the conversation over whether Scotland should stay or leave, I just think the rest of the UK will not be much bothered to try and convince the Scots to stay in the UK. It's just my opinion of course and I may well be wrong, only time will tell.

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Old 31st May 2019, 08:48
  #194 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
I did not say the rest of the UK will get a vote.

I said "I don't think there will be the same public in depth discussion and arguments as there were over the last independence vote.". The rest of the UK will inevitably be involved in the conversation over whether Scotland should stay or leave, I just think the rest of the UK will not be much bothered to try and convince the Scots to stay in the UK. It's just my opinion of course and I may well be wrong, only time will tell.
It would be like "the knights that say Ni!" (Monty Python and the Holy Grail) - keep chopping off bits of the UK, but carry on regardless.

The argument that was deployed so successfully in IndyRef1; that and independent Scotland couldn't automatically join the EU will have disappeared in a puff of smoke once the UK is outside the EU. If Scotland won independence and joined the EU then I could see it gaining a lot of inward investment from companies in the remainder of the UK wanting seamless access to the EU and it's markets. Financial services could be a prime mover to Edinburgh.
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Old 31st May 2019, 08:55
  #195 (permalink)  
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t would be like "the knights that say Ni!" (Monty Python and the Holy Grail) - keep chopping off bits of the UK, but carry on regardless.
The chopping off bits was the Black Knight. The Knights Who Say Ni were after a shrubbery (“one that looks nice. And not too expensive.").....
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Old 31st May 2019, 09:03
  #196 (permalink)  
 
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Just please remember that not all us jocks are remotely interested in 'independence' - the thought of even more power going to the SNP/Green alliance (remember the SNP rely on Green Party support to retain power at the moment) is truly frightening.
As has been said elsewhere - if scotland votes for 'independence' they will merely swap London rule for Berlin/Brussels rule and will bend over forwards to be lap dogs to the EU - so therefore it will not be an 'independent' country - assuming of course scotland would be admitted into the EU ???
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Old 31st May 2019, 09:29
  #197 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The chopping off bits was the Black Knight. The Knights Who Say Ni were after a shrubbery (“one that looks nice. And not too expensive.").....
Must watch it again, it's ages since I saw it!
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Old 31st May 2019, 09:37
  #198 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
As has been said elsewhere - if scotland votes for 'independence' they will merely swap London rule for Berlin/Brussels rule and will bend over forwards to be lap dogs to the EU - so therefore it will not be an 'independent' country - assuming of course scotland would be admitted into the EU ???
Well even if you really must subscribe to the "lap dog"/ loss of sovereignty argument surely Scotland gaining independence from the UK could be seen as getting rid of one level of interference (London) in Scottish sovereignty... so whats not to like?
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Old 31st May 2019, 10:06
  #199 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Well even if you really must subscribe to the "lap dog"/ loss of sovereignty argument surely Scotland gaining independence from the UK could be seen as getting rid of one level of interference (London) in Scottish sovereignty... so whats not to like?
At the last 'indy' ref - it was clear that there was not a huge amount of support for 'independence',many of us up here are absolutely sick of the Krankie continually banging on about 'Independence' and 'indyref2' - referendumbs are extremely divisive and cause more trouble than they are worth.Would you be happy with the Krankie and the Greens loony ideas running your country ?? I certainly would not !!
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Old 31st May 2019, 10:16
  #200 (permalink)  
 
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A lot of negativity on this Thread. (I know it is Jet Blast!) But could anyone come up with a positive comment on who they would actually want as PM? (And I know that this is Jet Blast, but keeping within the likely contenders would more sensible.)
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