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Transgender athletes

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Transgender athletes

Old 15th May 2019, 18:59
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Transgender athletes

My daughter has asked for help with a university assignment she was given. Iím over simplifying it but, but the goal is to determine if a non scientific poll reflects the same results as a scientific one.

By an answer of yes, no or not sure:

Should a male who identifies as a female be allowed to compete in a female sport?

Interested to see if the percentages come close to the scientific poll. Per the rules, additional info canít be provided.

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Old 15th May 2019, 19:12
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No. He might identify as a woman but he's still a bloke with a bloke's muscles.
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Old 15th May 2019, 19:52
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Put me down as "Not sure."

Shopping, why not?

Nude mud wrestling, perhaps not such a good idea ....
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Old 15th May 2019, 20:16
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It depends on the sport.

Some require bodily dexterity where a natal female will be superior (gymnastics, fencing), in others it will be irrelevant as rules already exist to divide competitors my physical size (boxing, judo), in some it will be irrelevant anyway (sailing, horse jumping, dressage) others it will be important (swimming, sprinting).
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Old 15th May 2019, 21:08
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Old 15th May 2019, 21:28
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As with Phil in 2
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Old 15th May 2019, 21:45
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Originally Posted by RedhillPhil View Post
No. He might identify as a woman but he's still a bloke with a bloke's muscles.
Put me down as a No too.
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Old 15th May 2019, 21:54
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Sex is identified by the DNA. As far as I'm concerned, if the DNA says "he", than for purposes of sports he's a male. If the dude wants to identify as a woman and wants to live his life that way - fine. But a large part of what makes a person good (or bad) at a particular sport is in their DNA (I'm short - about 5 ft. 6 in. - I would never make it as a basketball player no matter how hard I worked). So DNA makes the call.

Now, there are a very small percentage of people who's DNA makes them a little of both - with sexual characteristics of both. That's a much tougher question that I have a mixed feelings on - but that's not the question that was asked.
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Old 15th May 2019, 22:13
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I'm with ORAC.

But it is more nuanced. If a male transitions to female before puberty then they won't have had the muscle development due testosterone, so they may be worth considering, but those who transition after puberty will have permanent advantage as regards muscle mass (depending on whether that's an advantage for the sport in question).
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Old 15th May 2019, 22:21
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It's mostly BS. There are very few transgender people. 1% is the figure I read. Of that 1% there has to be a tiny percentage who are or aspire to be athletes. Of that number another vanishingly small number would wish compete in competitions where strength brought on by testosterone would bring them an advantage over xx women.

In other words it's a false premise.

The issue really is the likes of Semenya, actual women with high testosterone.

It seems to me that a lot of this manufactured controversy is driven by bigotry against transgender people.

Last edited by Steepclimb; 15th May 2019 at 22:46.
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Old 15th May 2019, 22:24
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In the case of Caster Semenya, I understand that she has no ovaries or womb and has internal testes and a level of testosterone close to a male. However, if thatís the way she was born and there has been no medical intervention, I guess she could argue that it is a completely natural sporting advantage, the same as someone having extra long legs or height?
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Old 15th May 2019, 23:37
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Put me down as "What the hell does it matter"?

For the overall good of the human race - like all other sports - athletics is totally unimportant.,
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Old 16th May 2019, 06:17
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Old 16th May 2019, 08:27
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We have already seen how Soviet women dominated in some sports.
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Old 16th May 2019, 09:07
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Should a male who identifies as a female be allowed to compete in a female sport?
No. DNA should be the final arbiter, nothing else. An individual's urge to be of the opposite sex is no basis for allowing them to compete in that opposite sex's sport. If a person truly registers on the DNA scale as Transgender then it is time to consider a third category and they can then compete among themselves.
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Old 16th May 2019, 09:07
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I'm with RedhillPhil in #2
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Old 16th May 2019, 09:14
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What on earth does "identifies as a female" mean (= delusional? - or possibly, just wants to share the changing room?).

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Old 16th May 2019, 09:21
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Biological men who feel that they have a female brain in a man's body have no right to intrude on women's sports and hog all the glory: Mack Beggs (wrestling) and Rachel McKinnon (Cycling) come to mind.
Caster Semenya is a different case, where she is technically Intersex with elevated testosterone, making it unfair (according to IAAF rules) to compete against other women who have lower testosterone. (To solve it, she could identify as a man and run the men's race, but she may not win!)

(NB: The answers you get from this forum mainly populated by a practical set of people who live in the real world may be heavily biased towards no. If you were to put the same question to a Guardian/wet-liberal-leaning type of forum, I suspect the opposite. Would I be jumping the gun if I guessed that that is what you have done and the comparison forms part of the research??!!)
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Old 16th May 2019, 09:35
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There is an argument that sports should be sex free, just persons. If you split male/female, short/tall, handicapped/unhandicapped. etc. you have to be prepared to specify each option.
There seems to be a difficulty these days in being specific about gender, sometimes the obvious is the answer.
in the case of this athlete, its only one person, stop worrying about it. There will always be people willing to cheat anyway.
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Old 16th May 2019, 09:48
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My opinion...

Short answer - No.

Long answer - I used to compete at road cycling (Iím past my best now but still keen!) at an amateur level. I remember one race in particular in about 1997 when I watched the current womenís national champion get dropped out of the bunch consisting of an average level of male amateurs.

Now, standards have changed considerably and female professional road cyclists are far better than they were twenty years ago. However, even a good standard amateur male (not someone like me but a good, strong amateur racer) would be able to compete at international womenís road cycling and probably win.

That is why I donít think it is fair that a man should self identify as a woman and sweep the board.

Itís not sexist, itís not transphobic itís just fairer that way.

The ultimate result of our quest to prove that everyone is born the same would be mixed gender competitions where, in many sports, there would be no female representation.

I think that would be a travesty.

There are many sports where I think the womenís game is more interesting than the male competition (Iím not being a pervert) such as tennis.

I watched highlights of the womens FA cup final last week and I thought the standard was excellent. It was brilliant to watch and I would pay to see it. However, none of those ladies would make it into the Premier League teams.

So, at the risk of upsetting the tiny proportion of transgender athletes that wish to compete I would vote in favour of the masses instead of the minority.

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