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Notre-Dame ablaze

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Notre-Dame ablaze

Old 16th Apr 2019, 09:01
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Much better in daylight.

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Old 16th Apr 2019, 09:09
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Late AM local update - It's being reported the Notre-Dame fire now being suspected of being due to (to paraphrase) "involuntary arson"..Those working on the building have been identified and will be interviewed by the police...FWIW the French system tends to treat those even peripherally possibly involved in any crime as being guilty until proven innocent.

Some of the workmen, dressed in their cleanest overalls, have already been filmed doing the "perp walk" into one of the Paris Police HQ's this AM...

Wouldn't want to be in their safety footwear this AM..

Last edited by wiggy; 16th Apr 2019 at 09:20.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 09:42
  #43 (permalink)  
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 09:43
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A good friend of mine said that he felt sad when the building was burning, I knew about it, but did not share his sadness. Later on, I saw pictures on Facebook of the big Cathedral dying, and for the first time I knew how he felt.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:19
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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You don‘t need a Cathedral to say a prayer.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:31
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Slow and Curious: it would appear that you miss the point.
The rebuilding effort will come, and I am sure that people will ask for contributions.
We were in Paris back in the 90's. Took the kids, and they got to enjoy the Cathedral on a nice sun shiny day.
If a local group is passing the hat, I'll toss in a few bucks.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:37
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
If a local group is passing the hat, I'll toss in a few bucks.
So would I.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:40
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Auxtank View Post
Getting the Oak timbers is not the problem. Plenty en France and in Britain. There is a fundamental difference between French oak and British Oak - some would even say it won us Trafalgar but let's not go there at this point in time; we're all friends joined by a mutual tragedy.

The wood's not the lost bit, It's the craft - the preparing/ shaping and installing (those handed down skills) that folks have passed up in the race for glass and steel and USB plugs.

That having been said - there is a very select band of Oakwrights - who will doubtless be called in. We will see this magnificent structure rebuild once more.
Apparently France has preserved it's traditions of these skills better than the English.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:51
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Watching the news this morning with an architectural expert. He was saying that the building will be encased in a shroud for about a decade whilst they rebuild it. Luckily large parts have remained relatively intact. The rose windows for example.

I felt upset. Not personally but I had a sad emotion. But it will be rebuilt and will one day resemble its former glory and hopefully stand for another 850 years. I haven’t seen the video but supposedly the people nearby were kneeling singing ave Maria during the fire.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:52
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Surely the catholic church could afford to contribute a significant share of the repair costs?

(I realise they aren't the actual owner, but they have right to use it in perpetuity).
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 15:58
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Time for the Vatican to step in....
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 16:19
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Originally Posted by 57mm View Post
Time for the Vatican to step in....
My general experience with the clergy is that they can't organize their own way out of a driveway.
I believe that there is sufficient project management talent in France to handle the repairs in an organized fashion, though one hopes that the Pontiff will lead a fund raising drive to help with the cost of repairs. It's an iconic Catholic house of worship.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 16:27
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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There are some very very bright people who are bureaucrats in France. They are extremely skilled at passing the buck. Multiple layers of bureaucracy have allowed this church to get in to a very sorry state. They will all want a piece of the reconstruction.

I have a question. Why do they think it will cost hundreds of millions to re-build it? The early comments appear to imply about a billion Euros. That's a bit steep.
My Polish builder would have it done in no time.

As for money, shouldn't the Vatican flog off some of the artwork it has to pay for it?
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 16:59
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
Watching the news this morning with an architectural expert. He was saying that the building will be encased in a shroud for about a decade whilst they rebuild it. Luckily large parts have remained relatively intact. The rose windows for example.

I felt upset. Not personally but I had a sad emotion. But it will be rebuilt and will one day resemble its former glory and hopefully stand for another 850 years. I haven’t seen the video but supposedly the people nearby were kneeling singing ave Maria during the fire.
From images on TV today it looks what we were seeing last night was mostly the main "outer" roof and it's supporting oak structure ablaze, which in time collapsed onto the top of the vaulted inner ceiling but didn't burn through ...The part of the inner ceiling that was penetrated seems to have mostly been the bit which was clobbered when the umpteen hundred tonne lead/wood spire gave way and punched through the structure. As a result of that ceiling partially holding up at least some of the large stained glass windows and wooden furnishings were protected from direct flames, though there is obviously a heck of a lot of water and smoke damage..


As for the "singing on the streets, yes it is on record..


Last edited by wiggy; 16th Apr 2019 at 17:10.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 17:14
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Unlike in the UK France is a secular state and not involved in maintaining churches - which is why renovation of Norte Dame has been so slow as they sought foreign funds
Actually that is completely incorrect. Although the state has no involvement in religion in France, it has, since the early 1900s owned all church buildings. In England the C of E is the established national church, but the state does not own any church property, and church repairs, maintenance etc are the responsibility of the church itself, and no public funds are involved. In Germany a percentage of tax income is put aside for the maintenance of church buildings, of all denominations as far as I am aware.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 17:15
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Sad news, thankful for the firefighters who were able to save it from burning completely.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 17:20
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Why rebuild it? Why not build something new, something that reflects the belief of the people of the present days. Like a disco, a soccer stadium, a casino, a brothel, a EU Headquarters?
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 18:25
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
My general experience with the clergy is that they can't organize their own way out of a driveway.
I believe that there is sufficient project management talent in France to handle the repairs in an organized fashion, though one hopes that the Pontiff will lead a fund raising drive to help with the cost of repairs. It's an iconic Catholic house of worship.
https://my.neighbor.org/

LW, meet father Joe. Or at least the organization he founded in San Diego. He’s a real hustler in that he leaves no stone unturned looking for funds and volunteers to better the situation of folks who need help. He talked me out of my car a number of years ago. Old airport clunker, was going to trade it in but was talked into donating it instead. It soldiered on for a number of years delivering meals and supplies to folks around San Diego.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 18:36
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
https://my.neighbor.org/
LW, meet father Joe. Or at least the organization he founded in San Diego. He’s a real hustler in that he leaves no stone unturned looking for funds and volunteers to better the situation of folks who need help. He talked me out of my car a number of years ago. Old airport clunker, was going to trade it in but was talked into donating it instead. It soldiered on for a number of years delivering meals and supplies to folks around San Diego.
Glad to hear the good news story. My own experiences are quite the opposite. Perhaps it's something in the water locally.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 18:48
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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French officials today are saying what I did -- that they no longer have trees of the size cut in the 13th century, and that "new technology" will be required in the reconstruction.

The good news, though, if there can be any, is that the stained glass appears to have survived, and likewise the organ, though I am sure it will need a complete overhaul. (And maybe they can restore it to its original state instead of the appalling changes foisted on it during the last rebuild -- but I doubt it.)

Despite those of us watching from afar and going "where are the firemen?", it appears that the Paris fire brigades did their job in exemplary manner, prioritizing what they needed to. I'll cut them slack on this, as it had to be an incredibly difficult task.
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