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Notre-Dame ablaze

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Notre-Dame ablaze

Old 15th Apr 2019, 21:07
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, the wooden support structure (as long as it lasts) is visible in the earlier pictures of the fire; it will burn like mad, a great shame.

Last edited by TLDNMCL; 15th Apr 2019 at 21:20. Reason: spelling error.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 21:33
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Really? Initial fire-fighting held off? I think this would be contrary to all normal fire response strategies. Why would you hold off and let a fire take a hold and spread? If you are going to let people in at all to recover valuables then some water coming down on them is probably a good idea. But if there is a smoke risk then you wouldn't want them going in and needing valuable firefighters diverted to rescue them.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 21:58
  #23 (permalink)  
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Many of the paintings in Windsor Castle were worth over fifty-million at the time of the fire. More now. The big one (that they had to hide from the French during dinner) has an incalculable value.

When the powers that be were looking for timber for the roof, they spotted oaks on a royal estate. They enquired if they could cut them down for the roof. 'Why not . . . that's what they were planted for, n-hundred years ago.'

We, humans, could rebuild Notre Dame in 1/10 of the time it took to build it. Twenty years. It might be a symbol of how we can pull together when things are important enough.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 22:06
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Very sad.

Just before Easter, , very high profile religious/national symbol, renovations being done but no work at the time of ignition ..........
Have the conspiracy theories started?
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 22:14
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You mean like this: https://www.newsweek.com/spate-attac...statue-1370800
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 22:19
  #26 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by structor View Post
Really? Initial fire-fighting held off? I think this would be contrary to all normal fire response strategies. Why would you hold off and let a fire take a hold and spread? If you are going to let people in at all to recover valuables then some water coming down on them is probably a good idea. But if there is a smoke risk then you wouldn't want them going in and needing valuable firefighters diverted to rescue them.
No, not held off but...carefully co-ordinated to seize interior treasures - (enabling real people to go in and get them) - some of which are priceless.

Inundation with water at that stage could have ruined artworks below, endangered salvage attempts going on at ground level. etc.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 22:24
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Rivets:
We, humans, could rebuild Notre Dame in 1/10 of the time it took to build it. Twenty years.
Where are you going to find 16-20 inch oak beams in 40 foot lengths?
When it is rebuilt, it will not be the same structure. Likely steel frame under an old-looking skin.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 22:31
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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This picture seems to show the roof remains burning on top of the vaulted ceiling in at least part of the cathedral.
Maybe the damage inside might not be as bad as it looks from the outside....


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Old 15th Apr 2019, 22:37
  #29 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Rivets:
Where are you going to find 16-20 inch oak beams in 40 foot lengths?
When it is rebuilt, it will not be the same structure. Likely steel frame under an old-looking skin.
Getting the Oak timbers is not the problem. Plenty en France and in Britain. There is a fundamental difference between French oak and British Oak - some would even say it won us Trafalgar but let's not go there at this point in time; we're all friends joined by a mutual tragedy.

The wood's not the lost bit, It's the craft - the preparing/ shaping and installing (those handed down skills) that folks have passed up in the race for glass and steel and USB plugs.

That having been said - there is a very select band of Oakwrights - who will doubtless be called in. We will see this magnificent structure rebuild once more.
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 22:41
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Originally Posted by obgraham View Post
Rivets:
Where are you going to find 16-20 inch oak beams in 40 foot lengths?
When it is rebuilt, it will not be the same structure. Likely steel frame under an old-looking skin.
Easily available.
Go and look at the (first!) Glasgow art school restoration.
I'd say the Notre Dame roof will go back in wood, not steel...
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Old 15th Apr 2019, 23:49
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From the New York Times

French authorities said firefighting planes were too dangerous for Notre-Dame and "could cause the whole of the structure to collapse," an apparent response to President Trump's tweet suggesting the use of "flying water tankers" to stop the fire
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 00:08
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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From half way around the world, this building has always been a source of inspiration and awe. Finally I was able to see it, not just once but twice in the last eight years. It did not disappoint, and I've just been through my photo records of those trips and realise just what has been lost. I share the sorrow that will be felt all over the world, but especially in the beautiful city of Paris itself
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 00:09
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by HEMS driver View Post
If only the bishop had raised a white flag, the fire brigade would have responded sooner.
well the smoke is white, maybe there's a new pope?
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 00:47
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Slight thread drift, but goes towards response.

Post Glasgow School of Arts fire #1, Strathclyde Fire Service released this timeline of their response. It is a little long, 13 minutes, but worth preparing a cup (or glass) of your beverage of choice and watching.

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Old 16th Apr 2019, 01:29
  #35 (permalink)  

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Can't determine who was quicker to their keyboards, doubtless rubbing their hands with glee - the armchair experts or the usual Trump-bashers. Doubtless they'd lauded the idiotic suggestions of failing Hollywood types in the days after Macondo. Pathetically predictable.

Back on Planet Earth, today the world indeed recorded a heartbreaking loss. Looks like an appropriately aggressive (and ballsy) response from Paris Fire - aerial placement for one, and deploying crews up the bell towers while the structure was fully involved.... may have made all the difference. Earlier reports of one FF injured but nothing further. Thoughts are with them all - I'm sure a long night for many.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 01:29
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder View Post
......... I share the sorrow that will be felt all over the world, but especially in the beautiful city of Paris itself
An equally sad note is that while the sorrow may well be felt all over the world, it will not be universal.
There will be a sizeable population of people who will openly and actively rejoice; dancing in the streets and AK-47 fire.
But I doubt that we will see that in our media.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 02:17
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Historic Pipe Organ

Is there any early word how the fine pipe organs survived or not?
Glad nobody was killed!

Last edited by jack11111; 16th Apr 2019 at 03:04.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 02:21
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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I would not be surprised to see the heavy oak structure survive relatively unscathed. I'm not familiar with the fire resistance of oak, but it isn't uncommon for jarrah and other Australian hardwood members to survive building fires that would leave steel members looking like licorice. I know of at least one building that was rebuilt using the original timbers. One can only hope that this is the case here.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 07:14
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jack11111 View Post
Is there any early word how the fine pipe organs survived or not?
Glad nobody was killed!
Sadly Jack unfortunately according to media reports this AM the main pipe organ is believed to be badly damaged.

AL 1: 10 minutes after posting the above one of the Paris deputy Mayors announced that the big/main organ was in a "good state". (source BFM TV)

The few TV images I've seen so far show that surprisingly (?) at least a few parts of the structure and furnishings at ground level appear to be superficially intact but water damaged. Large sections of the vaulted ceiling are also still in place.

Not sure if this link to Le Figaro will work overseas but will paste it anyway - there are some images taken inside the cathedral whilst fire fighting was still taking place in the 08:13 report:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-fra...ers.php#984775

As an aside, with regard to some of the inevitable schoolboy comments posted earlier that seem to always pop up when anything involving the French and bravery is concerned are involved, here's some footage of the Sapeur-Pompiers at work from an apartment block fire in Paris earlier this year..


Last edited by wiggy; 16th Apr 2019 at 07:45.
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Old 16th Apr 2019, 08:48
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 3wheels View Post
From the New York Times

French authorities said firefighting planes were too dangerous for Notre-Dame and "could cause the whole of the structure to collapse," an apparent response to President Trump's tweet suggesting the use of "flying water tankers" to stop the fire
Hmmm... Flying large aircraft around at low level over a major metropolis. At night. What could possibly go wrong?
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