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Legal Aid to Pander?

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Legal Aid to Pander?

Old 19th Apr 2019, 00:18
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
.....
In previous years she'd be hanged for her treachery.
Probably not. But then, only after a trial, anyway.
My simplified solution (and I'm sure that it would end up being much more complicated) would be :

I see no problem with stripping acquired citizenship from a person. Acquired citizenship implies, in my mind, lifetime probation.
For citizens-by-birth the only civilised course of action is trial, if required. That should be under the laws of the nation holding them, if appropriate or when and if they return to the nation of their birth.

Children, of course, complicate this.
If the children are citizens by birth of a country other than that of the parent then the parent may elect to relinquish control of the child and have it returned to state supervised guardianship in the child's country of citizenship (CoC).
This does not confer upon the parent any right to ever accompany or follow the child.
(Underpinning my thoughts here is that these parents have not displayed due care and responsibility towards their children. Quite the opposite in fact.)

In recognising that these persons are probably not welcome in the countries where they have ended up, their CoC should work together with the country holding them to return them to their CoC - for trial if appropriate.
It is the responsibility of the CoC to have in place laws that foresee and are appropriate to manage these cases.

Stripping citizens-by-birth of their citizenship is not the answer.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 08:21
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Taking away a citizenship with zero right to legally question is what USSR used to do,
That statement is completely and utterly false. There is a legal right to challenge removal of UK citizenship.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 10:08
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
She's an unrepentant ISIS fellow traveller. She will rot in her Islamic state hell forever. There is no way she will return to Britain.
She made her choice.
In previous years she'd be hanged for her treachery.
Going away and fighting with someone else is not a criminal offence nor treason as person in question was in Syria not UK. In actual fact as a 15 yr old who had a child there seems to be little or no evidence that she did any fighting.

If Govt wishes to have it as an Offense that anybody going and fighting other than for British Military is a criminal I would fully welcome that. However of course this will never happen as too many Mercaneries around the world and too many companies making millions out of it.
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 10:11
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
Probably not. But then, only after a trial, anyway.
My simplified solution (and I'm sure that it would end up being much more complicated) would be :

I see no problem with stripping acquired citizenship from a person. Acquired citizenship implies, in my mind, lifetime probation.
For citizens-by-birth the only civilised course of action is trial, if required. That should be under the laws of the nation holding them, if appropriate or when and if they return to the nation of their birth.

Children, of course, complicate this.
If the children are citizens by birth of a country other than that of the parent then the parent may elect to relinquish control of the child and have it returned to state supervised guardianship in the child's country of citizenship (CoC).
This does not confer upon the parent any right to ever accompany or follow the child.
(Underpinning my thoughts here is that these parents have not displayed due care and responsibility towards their children. Quite the opposite in fact.)

In recognising that these persons are probably not welcome in the countries where they have ended up, their CoC should work together with the country holding them to return them to their CoC - for trial if appropriate.
It is the responsibility of the CoC to have in place laws that foresee and are appropriate to manage these cases.

Stripping citizens-by-birth of their citizenship is not the answer.
Uk Govt seems quite happy to allow the continued citizenship of Mercaneries so why is this different.

Picking on a teenager to show how powerful it is, really only highlights its weakness.

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Old 19th Apr 2019, 14:08
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Uk Govt seems quite happy to allow the continued citizenship of Mercaneries so why is this different.

Picking on a teenager to show how powerful it is, really only highlights its weakness.
Mercaneries - ?
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 21:29
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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I believe it might be a Dothrakian word meaning what ever racedo wants it to mean!
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Old 19th Apr 2019, 23:54
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Uk Govt seems quite happy to allow the continued citizenship of Mercaneries so why is this different.

Picking on a teenager to show how powerful it is, really only highlights its weakness.
In Oz, laws have long existed to prosecute mercenaries on their return.
I'd have thought those laws would be applicable to these cases.
If inadequate then repeal and re-draught them.

However in the case of acquired citizenship I'll stick with summary loss of citizenship.
We don't need those people living in our country and we don't need lengthy and expensive argument to seal the case.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 05:57
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
All Govts are the same but when authority challenged and Govt uses its security forces against the people, how many occasions are said forces brought to trial quickly for acting against the people.

Pretending it is always some other country is always the get out of people not willing to question what their Govt do. The rights they remove from people who protest today are the ones they will remove from you next week.
Spot on, the only reason our authorities are percieved as being so liberal is because us Brits are an extremely compliant rule following bunch.
Just watch what brutality is visited on those who would actually fight for their rights in any real fashion.
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 18:05
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hyperdark View Post
Spot on, the only reason our authorities are percieved as being so liberal is because us Brits are an extremely compliant rule following bunch.
Just watch what brutality is visited on those who would actually fight for their rights in any real fashion.
You mean actual rights as enshrined in law, or someone's perception that they should be allowed to do whatever they like, irrespective of how it impinges on the rest of society?
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 20:28
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
You mean actual rights as enshrined in law, or someone's perception that they should be allowed to do whatever they like, irrespective of how it impinges on the rest of society?
You mean like a right to seek employment and a cartel of employers with full police support spying and blacklisting people to ensure you cannot be employed ?

Blacklist blog ? This blog is brought to you courtesy of Hazards magazine
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 20:37
  #51 (permalink)  
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Is it not reasonable to list those who willingly disrupt employment?
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Old 20th Apr 2019, 21:08
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
Is it not reasonable to list those who willingly disrupt employment?
Not when you are doing it as part of a secret organisation funded and supported by the state. Someone's claim is fully accepted and the person concerned has zero right of challenge and does not even know they are on the list.

In 1970's to 1990's Special Branch turned up at work places and requested "assistance" of people who were Irish, often bringing them down to a Police station publicly, holding for a few hours and then releasing. People never charged but employer then worries is said employee a member of PIRA / INLA and person found soon after they without employment.
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Old 21st Apr 2019, 08:03
  #53 (permalink)  
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I recall one briefing, late 60s, about trades union infiltration.

The meeting would start above the pub and the first session would be deadly boring, there would be a break and people would flock to the bar. The meeting would reconvene with just the extremists present.

One organizer, can't remember his name, would be really be rabble rousing and then retire to the pub afterwards with the SB observer where they would have a good friendly chin wag.

We forget those days.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 14:50
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I recall one briefing, late 60s, about trades union infiltration.

The meeting would start above the pub and the first session would be deadly boring, there would be a break and people would flock to the bar. The meeting would reconvene with just the extremists present.

One organizer, can't remember his name, would be really be rabble rousing and then retire to the pub afterwards with the SB observer where they would have a good friendly chin wag.

We forget those days.
You mean like the national membership secretary for CND becoming an EU Ambassador for Foreign Affairs.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 18:44
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
You mean like a right to seek employment and a cartel of employers with full police support spying and blacklisting people to ensure you cannot be employed ?

Blacklist blog ? This blog is brought to you courtesy of Hazards magazine
You are right, that behaviour is despicable.
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Old 23rd Apr 2019, 22:20
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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It was not all about the State..........

Back in the 70s, the Blacklists were run by Labour and the TUs. You did not get action on Housing in NUM areas unless you were an NUM member. Especially not if you were in the AUEW or EETPU.

In a large factory well North of London, 2 of the TUs actively contributed to that factory's blacklist.
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