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Travel documentation to the EU after Brexit

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Travel documentation to the EU after Brexit

Old 3rd Apr 2019, 16:47
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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More of concern is that UK have promised continued right to exist in UK WHATEVER the outcome.
I’ll need to check (when I have time) but our EU27 colleagues working in the U.K. have been very strongly advised to register for “settled status” in the U.K. pronto and not to rely on any promises from HMG.

In the light of recent events and the possibility of a change of PM as we move into further stand offs negotiations, or a no deal exit, we actually have no real idea what the real U.K. policy will be with regard EU27 nationals.

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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 17:15
  #22 (permalink)  
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we actually have no real idea what the real U.K. policy will be with regard EU27 nationals.
- nor UK nationals living in the EU either .... (or have I missed something?)
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 19:13
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


I’ll need to check (when I have time) but our EU27 colleagues working in the U.K. have been very strongly advised to register for “settled status” in the U.K. pronto and not to rely on any promises from HMG.

In the light of recent events and the possibility of a change of PM as we move into further stand offs negotiations, or a no deal exit, we actually have no real idea what the real U.K. policy will be with regard EU27 nationals.

My understanding from news reports is that settled status is a simple process for any EU citizen who can demonstrate they have resided in the UK for 5? years. If they haven't been resident for 5 years, then they have to wait until they have. Proof of address, proof of identity and maybe a few other bits and pieces. It seems simple and straightforward, though there is a cost. Settled status apparently entitles EU citizens to carry on as they have before the referendum. I can't see any reasonable objections.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 21:59
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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'Settled status' gives any non-UK national (from anywhere in the world) the right to live and work indefinitely in the UK and to leave and re-enter almost without restrictions (Stay in the UK after it leaves the EU ('settled status'): step by step). For EU citizens resident in the UK this seems to be a better deal than any 'assurances' given to UK citizens in other EU countries. There have been 'complaints' about the costs of registering for this 'Settled Status' but it is now free for EU citizens, I wonder how this compares with the costs of the various documents already required in EU countries that several posters here have mentioned? It appears that the UK is way ahead of other EU countries on this matter.

As someone who once held 'Settled Status', I think that this is an excellent provision for EU citizens in the UK. If they want to stay I would urge them to become committed and take out UK citizenship.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 22:01
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by k3k3 View Post
While I lived in Germany my (British) children had to carry a Residence Permit (Aufenthaltserlaubnis) with them, in spite of EU regulations and the fact their mother is German, when the decided to apply for German nationality they had to provide their German grandparents marriage certificate and every marriage and birth certificate since then. This was a major undertaking as at least one of the certificates was issued in a place that was Germany but is now Poland.
Mrs GtW had to jump through similar hoops, some of them expensive, to get her Irish passport (getting copies of documents originally issued in various random parts of Europe). And she couldn't fulfil some of the requirements at all, eg supplying a copy of her father's current passport, because her father's passport had expired, he was too ill to ever travel abroad again, and there was no way he was going to pay for a passport renewal and not us it for passing ports. (The Irish response was, "yeah, OK, we get that, send us a copy of the expired one then". Some bureaucrats can be sensible. But it all took time.)
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 06:28
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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ThorMos


https://eucitizensrights.campaign.gov.uk/



https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...e-after-brexit


“On 27 February, the Government accepted an amendment by Conservative MP Alberto Costa, which proposes that the UK and EU commit to part two of the Withdrawal Agreement on citizens’ rights in the case of no deal. On 4 March, Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay sent a letter to Michel Barnier asking that both sides explore the options for ring-fencing citizens’ rights. Michel Barnier has responded saying that this would not be possible.”



Last edited by Kelly Hopper; 4th Apr 2019 at 06:50.
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 07:20
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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The only definite way to be confident of not being affected is by holding another EU country passport. As has been noted, the issuing of driving licences, CdS and passports has pretty much ground to a halt in France and if people aren't 'sorted' now, then they aren't going to be for a while. Accepting there is no such thing as a 'standard' Brit resident in the EU (some work, some are retired, some study etc) I think the straight answer is that some hoops may have to be jumped but no one will really know until an exit (or not) takes place. However, as with the rest of the world, these hoops always seems to be on a reciprocal basis. If the UK makes a special case for EU citizens then the EU is likely do the same - if not...well, confusion will indeed reign.
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 08:26
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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You can all stop panicking.

Brexit: EU agrees three-month visa waiver for Britons https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47801920

Unless you consider the €7 every three years to be too much to bear then your travel plans need not be interrupted.

Rest easy.

BV

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Old 4th Apr 2019, 09:42
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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The UK appears to be taking extremely good care of EU citizens living in the UK, as shown in 'gov.uk' quotes above and in this Post:

Originally Posted by Kelly Hopper View Post
ThorMos


https://eucitizensrights.campaign.gov.uk/



https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...e-after-brexit


“On 27 February, the Government accepted an amendment by Conservative MP Alberto Costa, which proposes that the UK and EU commit to part two of the Withdrawal Agreement on citizens’ rights in the case of no deal. On 4 March, Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay sent a letter to Michel Barnier asking that both sides explore the options for ring-fencing citizens’ rights. Michel Barnier has responded saying that this would not be possible.”
The last sentence in this quoted Post seems to indicate where the problem lies for UK citizens resident in other EU countries.
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 11:28
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alsacienne View Post
nobody has mentioned anything to the Police des Frontières at Basel ... yet!
Likewise, having met enough border officials and police who don't know the rules, I am confident there will be problems.
*
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 11:39
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
'Settled status' gives any non-UK national (from anywhere in the world) the right to live and work indefinitely in the UK and to leave and re-enter almost without restrictions). For EU citizens resident in the UK this seems to be a better deal than any 'assurances' given to UK citizens in other EU countries.
Appearances are decieving - Belgium has the legislation ready to ensure that no UK resident in Belgium will lose out any rights they have already acquired. To pick up on a couple of other points you've made:
  • It's a per country decision, which is why the EU can't deliver the promise.
  • Passports are considerably cheaper here, as are ID cards (many people don't bother with the passport because the countries they want to visit will accept the ID card).
  • My permenant residency came without cost - I was just added to the register when I qualified with no application or payment needed.

(I had to trim the URL from the quote - I've not posted enouigh to be able to post URLs.)
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 11:52
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Alsacienne, You Are Not Alone.

On the upside, regarding "return home": presenting your Carte and your passport will guarantee your entry into France. Keep them both valid and carry them both at all times outside France and you'll always get home.

On the downside, regarding your future ability to "visit EU countries": your nice lady from the DCPAF is not alone, and the reason she was unable to answer you is that, to quote QI, "nobody knows". Literally nobody. Because the UK is in this Brexit limbo-land ie - no deal signed, but not yet crashed out - there is no definitive statement possible about under what terms UK nationals will visit the Schengen Area in the future.

As things stand right now(10:52UTC, 4/4/2019), a No-Deal Brexit a week tomorrow will mean that UK passport holders become "third country nationals", hence the talk of the "rolling-90-in-180" limitation kicking in, but whether a visa will be required is not clear. A signed-Deal Brexit would give UK and EU nationals whatever access is in the deal.

So for those of us resident within Schengen, a no-deal means that we are (as residents of one EU country), be fully entitled to come and go as we please from our "home" country, but might be limited (as "third country nationals") to this "90-in-180" limitation within the rest of the Schengen Area outside one's home country. And of course, since not all the internal national borders of Schengen members are manned and policed like the airports are, there is the bizarre but future possibility of getting clocked on your way out of, say, Spain that you've "overstayed your Schengen welcome" because the SIS (Schengen Information System) clocked you on your way in to France and home six months ago... I hope to goodness that ukc_mike's ambassador is right


"It's a mess, ain't it, Sherriff?"
"Well, if it ain't, it'll do til a mess gets here.."
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 12:26
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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What is riling me is that any rule change following Brexit seems to be being applied retrospectively? That is just not on. Any UK citizen in EU land positioned themselves there in good faith based on the rules in place at the time. If the rules change then that must apply to future situations only.

On another note I read this morning that the Greeks are now refusing to accept the dual tax arrangement with UK now. So any UK expats in Greece will be taxed twice! You really begin to get a sense of just why our European neighbours wanted our friendship all the time their economies were being propped up by the UK tax payer. When that stops we are despised.
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 13:55
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ukc_mike View Post
Appearances are decieving - Belgium has the legislation ready to ensure that no UK resident in Belgium will lose out any rights they have already acquired. To pick up on a couple of other points you've made:
  • It's a per country decision, which is why the EU can't deliver the promise.
  • Passports are considerably cheaper here, as are ID cards (many people don't bother with the passport because the countries they want to visit will accept the ID card).
  • My permenant residency came without cost - I was just added to the register when I qualified with no application or payment needed.
Likewise here in Luxembourg.
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 14:07
  #35 (permalink)  
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Thanks WeeJeem ...I did feel very 'alone' hence my posting!

(And I also wonder about what you said about crossing EU Schengen borders from my own home EU country .... a lot of folk go to Breisach to get UK foods .... Heinz tomato soup, 'proper' Oxford Marmalade, Herta Bacon, Cathedral City Cheddar, Low Cal Philadelphia cheese etc ... and also great local foods that aren't sold in France. (Strange, but true .... waited 20 years for parsnips for Christmas Day lunch (shout out to Freiburg market!) and self-raising flour has only arrived in the last couple of years (plain flour and raising agent produced rock hard scones and dry, porous sponge cakes!) Especially since the 'importation' of UK bacon, pork pies and cheeses will now be considered contraband and risk being confiscated and the owner fined ..... Please don't tell me that P té en Croute, French round 'bacon' and local hard cheeses could replace our 'delicacies' ... there are times when you need good cheddar for a ploughman's lunch (with Branston of course) a true 'fry up' and a pork pie with pickled onions and Piccalilli just to stay sane! And of course with Basel just down the road, with theatres, galleries and flights from the Swiss side (hello Easyjet ...).

Don't get me started on the Franco/British dual tax treaty .... long may it continue!

So it's an unsettled time on many fronts ... and I do wish that the locals would stop asking me what's happening or what I voted for .... I don't know (like everyone else) and wasn't allowed to ... end of!
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 15:23
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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waited 20 years for parsnips for Christmas Day lunch
Just go to your local centre d'équitation.....they usually have tonnes.

I think that if there are reciprocal agreements, it'll be fine for residency. I take your point about travel through other EU countries but I think the only problem would be air travel. For day trips by road, how would they know?
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 19:20
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
The last sentence in this quoted Post seems to indicate where the problem lies for UK citizens resident in other EU countries.
Yeah, every single time the UK government demands free rainbow coloured flying unicorns for all Brits (but not, of course, any for nasty foreigners) the dastardly EU has the temerity to point out the laws of physics, mathematics, nature, economics, politics, wha'ever. Didn't ought to be allowed.
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Old 4th Apr 2019, 20:06
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
Yeah, every single time the UK government demands free rainbow coloured flying unicorns for all Brits (but not, of course, any for nasty foreigners) the dastardly EU has the temerity to point out the laws of physics, mathematics, nature, economics, politics, wha'ever. Didn't ought to be allowed.
That is not the case in this instance though is it?
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 07:41
  #39 (permalink)  
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=Alsacienne .... a lot of folk go to Breisach to get UK foods .... Heinz tomato soup, 'proper' Oxford Marmalade, Herta Bacon, Cathedral City Cheddar, Low Cal Philadelphia cheese etc ... and also great local foods that aren't sold in France. (Strange, but true .... waited 20 years for parsnips for Christmas Day lunch (shout out to Freiburg market!) and self-raising flour has only arrived in the last couple of years (plain flour and raising agent produced rock hard scones and dry, porous sponge cakes!) Especially since the 'importation' of UK bacon, pork pies and cheeses . . . there are times when you need good cheddar for a ploughman's lunch (with Branston of course) a true 'fry up' and a pork pie with pickled onions and Piccalil
You'll miss all that then? 👹
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Old 5th Apr 2019, 08:33
  #40 (permalink)  
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Probably not, but a taste of nostalgia from time to time isn't necessarily a bad thing, and I'm still fighting local opinion that British cooking is very much basse cuisine!
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