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BREXIT

Old 31st Aug 2019, 23:38
  #1861 (permalink)  
 
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Brexit will ensure that Gibraltar remains in British hands. All the while the UK has been part of the EU, Spain has been making the case for reclaiming Gibraltar, same EU laws and regulations, so why not just absorb the rock back into Spanish administration because nothing will change. Well after Brexit, everything will change. Gibraltar will retain its' currency and laws for a start. The strategic importance of Gibraltar controlling the gateway to the Med cannot be overstated. Of course the Spanish would like it back. Too bad for the Spanish and the EU that they didn't manage to effectively seize control by dropping border controls when they had a chance instead of carping on about fishing rights and closing the border whenever they felt like it.
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Old 31st Aug 2019, 23:59
  #1862 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
Protesters hit the streets while the majority stay silent. An affront to democracy when Parliament was meant to shut down anyway for the party conference season.

Parliament repeatedly turned down Theresa May’s agreement and then failed many times to come up with any alternative but it is still an affront to democracy?

The people voted and now 3 years later it is time to deliver.
Its time to deliver on a deal. The one that was promised by both Leave groups. The one that Theresa May kiboshed with her red lines. And the one that the hard line Brexiters will never agree too.

If there isn't a deal then either delay until there is one or stop the charade. We could have left in March but the Brexiters against Brexit voted against it.

There is no democratic mandate for no deal.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 01:08
  #1863 (permalink)  
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The Sunday Times:

“....Senior government sources say that even if the rebel bill passes, Johnson could go to Brussels and veto the suggestion himself — as an extension of the October 31 deadline would require the support of all 28 member states — or ask an ally such as Hungary’s prime minister, Viktor Orban, to do it for him.

In the interview, Johnson signalled that he intends to play hardball, refusing to rule out:
● packing the House of Lords with hundreds of peers to defeat the rebel bill
● asking the Queen not to give royal assent if it passes
● calling a general election himself even though the public has had “a bellyful” of elections
● deselecting Conservative MPs who try to bring down the government..........”

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Old 1st Sep 2019, 01:35
  #1864 (permalink)  
 
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It just needs to be over one, way or the other and the only way that will happen is when we are finally out, it's crippling business and the Country as well as on the EU side. Only then can we unite and move forward, plan ahead and bring the Country back together. You cannot make a perfect omelette without breaking a few eggs.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 01:39
  #1865 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Gibraltar.
Britain and Spain both want it. Both countries are EU members, so the EU is neutral - not going to pick sides.

After Brexit, there will be an EU member country with an argument against an outsider. You may be sure that Spain will have the full support of the EU whenever needed.
Ahhh Spain, that bastion of the rights of others, how is their piece of Morroco these days?
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 03:17
  #1866 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
It just needs to be over one, way or the other and the only way that will happen is when we are finally out, it's crippling business and the Country as well as on the EU side. Only then can we unite and move forward, plan ahead and bring the Country back together. You cannot make a perfect omelette without breaking a few eggs.
Unfortunately for the UK if leave is accomplished on the 31st of October, even a clean break without a deal, that date won't be the end of the Brexit saga, it'll barely be the beginning. The country will hardly be "bought back together" when conditions start to favour Irish re-unification and calls for Scottish independence grow.

The UK, in some way or another, is going to eventually have to make trade, customs, migration and a thousand other deals with the continent it is a part of, and the nations who are their closest neighbours and partners, and there's no indication that those deals will be in the UK's favour. The current arrangements in the EU have been developed over 40 years, and the new arrangements won't happen overnight (the average Free Trade Agreement negotiation time is 5-7 years, plus years for implementation). The UK will have to make deals with nations like China, Japan and the US all by itself and it'll quickly find out that they are not a world superpower anymore. Just wait until trade negotiations start with the US and the inevitable question of opening up healthcare and the NHS to privatisation is asked.

This BREXIT thread will not end on October 31st. It's going to continue for years afterwards.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 06:26
  #1867 (permalink)  
 
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This morning's news reports that Michel Barnier "rejects demands for backstop to be axed". Is he really too dim to see that, without some give and take on both sides, Johnson will get his way and leave without a deal? That will mean the term 'backstop' will revert to the meaning it had when I was a kid playing cricket in the street; wicket keeper. I wonder if M. Barnier will still be banging on about the bloody backstop even then?
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 06:35
  #1868 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post

Within the EU the food prices differ a lot. So you have to compare the UK food prices to the EU average or to individual countries.

When I am in the US prices for fresh produce / fish are a lot higher then where I reside. UK is also a lot higher and the offer of fresh produce a lot smaller.

Even with the high prices / high standards / the Netherlands manage to be a huge exporter world wide for produce / dairy products / poultry.

It is not only the EU who is protecting their agri sector. This actually the case in most countries around the world. If the UK decides not to, that might make farming in the UK for future generations even less interesting.

However I do not believe, or hope, that you would starve
Prices might increase and there might be a smaller selection to choose from.



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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:09
  #1869 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
This morning's news reports that Michel Barnier "rejects demands for backstop to be axed". Is he really too dim to see that, without some give and take on both sides, Johnson will get his way and leave without a deal?
Do you actually think that in the context of everything involved with the UK leaving the EU that "axing the backstop" falls into the category of "some give and take".......
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:28
  #1870 (permalink)  
 
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Do you actually think that in the context of everything involved with the UK leaving the EU that "axing the backstop" falls into the category of "some give and take"......
I certainly do think that. People such as Barnier give the impression that there is absolutely no possibility of discussing, let alone modifying, the backstop. He is obviously someone who enjoys the pain of banging his head against a wall.
Along the same lines, I heard (I think) Mr Coveney of the Irish Republic telling us in a BBC interview that UK suggestions such as pre-clearing shipments, computerised solutions can not work and there are none known to be operating anywhere. Aren't Norway & Sweden in Europe and they have a pretty busy customs clearing operation on one of their border posts operating in such a manner. The fact that Mr. Coveney is stating the opposite and basically doing his best to close down that potential solution by telling lies (or perhaps just making an error), puts him in the same category as Barnier. The old tried and tested "stick your fingers in your ear and shout Lah Lah.." method?
In a recent discussion on the radio, a politician mentioned, almost casually, how people on both sides of the argument should act like grown ups. Hear Hear!
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:35
  #1871 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Do you actually think that in the context of everything involved with the UK leaving the EU that "axing the backstop" falls into the category of "some give and take".......
Agreed, And as is pointed out here
Brexit: an avoidable failure
that if indeed Mr Johnson’s Alternative Arrangements plans are so good, then the Backstop simply won’t be needed. The problem is, they are not sufficient, and the EU are not going to budge on it any time soon.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:42
  #1872 (permalink)  
 
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So after 3 years of absolutely pointless political theatre in the UK (well, England mostly...), it’s now up to the EU to solve the conundrum of their outside border in Ireland within 60 days?

Nope.

The prevailing attitude in- and outside the UK is now finally what BoJo and his ilk have wanted all along: “ let the UK crash out and we’ll see what happens when the pieces are picked up. “

To assign “blame” for this state of affair is pointless a\nd a waste of energy: I want the rest of Europe to stop the negotiations and prepare their customs and border forces for October 31st; I’m sure the UK will be doing the same.

Last edited by FlyMD; 1st Sep 2019 at 07:43. Reason: Sp
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:44
  #1873 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Along the same lines, I heard (I think) Mr Coveney of the Irish Republic telling us in a BBC interview that UK suggestions such as pre-clearing shipments, computerised solutions can not work and there are none known to be operating anywhere. Aren't Norway & Sweden in Europe and they have a pretty busy customs clearing operation on one of their border posts operating in such a manner.
Norway aligns it's laws and regulations to EU standards and also pays into it. It's also a EFTA member and Schengen member. The relationship was built up over 40 years. The UK is currently heading towards a hard Brexit in 2 months with no agreements. Plus I would say that Norway and Sweden seem to get along better and have a better way to work things out than the UK and Ireland.

And this isn't even considering the Good Friday Agreement. There's more border crossings between Ireland and NI than there are between the USA and Canada.

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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:49
  #1874 (permalink)  
 
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There's more border crossings between Ireland and NI than there are between the USA and Canada.
That's only because the USA and Canada have proper control over their borders and do not subscribe to this "Freedom of Movement" rubbish, mandated on the UK by the EU..

IG
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:49
  #1875 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyMD View Post
So after 3 years of absolutely pointless political theatre in the UK (well, England mostly...), it’s now up to the EU to solve the conundrum of their outside border in Ireland within 60 days?

Nope.

The prevailing attitude in- and outside the UK is now finally what BoJo and his ilk have wanted all along: “ let the UK crash out and we’ll see what happens when the pieces are picked up. “

To assign “blame” for this state of affair is pointless a\nd a waste of energy: I want the rest of Europe to stop the negotiations and prepare their customs and border forces for October 31st; I’m sure the UK will be doing the same.
Amen! Just leave. Time will tell. I want my Communist Leadership to focus on post-brexit related issues.

But apparently custom experts like KelvinD can create a Technology based customs clearance process like Sweden and Norway have. Two countries who are both in the single market btw....
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:50
  #1876 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
When I am in the US prices for fresh produce / fish are a lot higher then where I reside. UK is also a lot higher and the offer of fresh produce a lot smaller.
Did you mean this?

Regarding Northern Ireland freeport, this would need a border in the Irish Sea, this was May's red line.

Food will still come in. If tariffs are imposed we would see price adjustments and changed to consumer purchasing.

Let us take strawberries as an example. The earliest crop is Egyptian cost of production is low but they probably have an EU tariff to protect Spanish producers. Given equal tariffs one would expect the Egyptian product might become less expensive. I would expect supermarkets to seller both at the same price that the market bears. Some years ago the Coop was selling US strawberries at 4 times the cost of a nearby strawberry farm. People still bought them but in lower quantities no doubt.

In the British season prices drop as they always do.

People but southern hemisphere produce despite the costs. Will Chilean asparagus become more expensive? Will English producers suffer?

​​​​Will the EU suddenly avoid British fish?

As an aside, in Belgium was a hotel with its restaurant and a separate restaurant to one side. The motel to the North advertised Brittany mussels; the restaurant to the South advertised Baltic mussels. I found it improbable that the two sourced their mussels from different places. As likely they were Dutch mussels from British mussel lays.

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Old 1st Sep 2019, 07:58
  #1877 (permalink)  
 
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Yes I did mean that. Around 85 percent of Dutch mussels come from Dutch waters. The rest comes from Ireland and Denmark. No issues there post Brexit
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 08:07
  #1878 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post


Ahhh Spain, that bastion of the rights of others, how is their piece of Morroco these days?
We are not involved there. Quite irrelevant to Gibraltar.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 08:09
  #1879 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post
That's only because the USA and Canada have proper control over their borders and do not subscribe to this "Freedom of Movement" rubbish, mandated on the UK by the EU..

IG
So you are (perhaps) a Leaver who is in favour of the UK having hard border control in place at the NI/ROI border for traffic into the UK?

I only ask because many a Brexiter's declared tactic in the event of a no deal is to have no such Border on the UK side, which, GFA, aside, potentially allows for FoM northbound.
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Old 1st Sep 2019, 08:16
  #1880 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
You cannot make a perfect omelette without breaking a few eggs.
The UK will be a perfect omelette after Brexit?
A far better analogy would be scrambled eggs.

But you are right of course. The eggs have all been broken and there is no way to put them back together. We are committed now (in more than one sense of the word) and there is no point in further delay.
​​​​
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