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BREXIT

Old 30th Aug 2019, 17:52
  #1801 (permalink)  
 
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Ultimately it is that the real Leave Remain challenge is now taking place. We know the consequences of both and Remainers are trying to stop it.

the hard brexit Leavers want it over with quick as they have zero confidence that their argument would stand to any new confirmatory test

In my view there were no real benifits to a no deal brexit yet the government/the PM are hell bent on leaving first and fixing a deal later
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Many significant Remainers are now hell bent on stopping Brexit.

it could all become a moment of defeat snatched from the jaws victory

if you think being in the EU is crap try being outside without getting prepared for it, for that is where we are headed

you may be OK with that; many are not and are challenging it

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Old 30th Aug 2019, 18:10
  #1802 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Ultimately it is that the real Leave Remain challenge is now taking place. We know the consequences of both and Remainers are trying to stop it.

the hard brexit Leavers want it over with quick as they have zero confidence that their argument would stand to any new confirmatory test

In my view there were no real benifits to a no deal brexit yet the government/the PM are hell bent on leaving first and fixing a deal later
​​​​
Many significant Remainers are now hell bent on stopping Brexit.

it could all become a moment of defeat snatched from the jaws victory

if you think being in the EU is crap try being outside without getting prepared for it, for that is where we are headed

you may be OK with that; many are not and are challenging it

​​​
whatever the outcome: 5 out of 10 will be against it. The UK is so divided it will lose either way, remain or leave...

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Old 30th Aug 2019, 18:21
  #1803 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post


whatever the outcome: 5 out of 10 will be against it. The UK is so divided it will lose either way, remain or leave...

unlike Erwin Schrödingers poor cat, we can't be in and out at the same time. Life in general and life with the EU is a compromise. It is now clear there are four ways one could go

1 Remain and live with it
2 Leave with a form of the May deal
3 Remain and attempt to reform from within
4 Leave and hope for the best outside; deal wise

What we have done since 2016 is look behind the curtain of British Society and don't really like what we have seen. We are not too keen to see how the other half think and act. It has come as a bit of a shock across the spectrum. And that is from all sides and perspectives. Devisive is an understatement.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 18:27
  #1804 (permalink)  
 
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5. Leave, prosper, agree new common trading policies with other ex-prisoner countries once they see the wheels don't fall off

Thank you for reading
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 18:29
  #1805 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
unlike Erwin Schrödingers poor cat, we can't be in and out at the same time. Life in general and life with the EU is a compromise. It is now clear there are four ways one could go

1 Remain and live with it
2 Leave with a form of the May deal
3 Remain and attempt to reform from within
4 Leave and hope for the best outside; deal wise
Coming from someone who seems to be living in a place which is neither part of the UK nor within the EU, but enjoying the benefits of both, your posts have to be tongue in cheek!
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 18:35
  #1806 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
5. Leave, prosper, agree new common trading policies with other ex-prisoner countries once they see the wheels don't fall off

Thank you for reading
I would say that is a prophecy not an option

and a long way off

but I do see your point and would be delighted if it were to come about

and thank you for reading
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 19:13
  #1807 (permalink)  
 
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if you think being in the EU is crap try being outside without getting prepared for it, for that is where we are headed
I keep seeing across on-line media similar statements to the above, and I know that people appear not to believe or trust any government site, however, the link I have posted numerous times would appear to be at odds with that often held view on the lack of any Brexit preparations:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...u-with-no-deal


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Old 30th Aug 2019, 19:55
  #1808 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
the link I have posted numerous times would appear to be at odds with that often held view on the lack of any Brexit preparations:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...u-with-no-deal
Concerning farming : beneficiaries will have to continue to conform to the same standard as currently.

" Eligible beneficiaries will continue to receive payments under the terms of the UK government’s funding guarantee.

Defra and the devolved administrations are preparing domestic legislation (under the Withdrawal Act) to ensure the UK has the ability in law to continue operation of payments in a ‘no-deal’ scenario. This legislation preserves the EU law as it currently stands, and ‘fixes’ the legislation so that it is operable after the UK leaves the EU.
The domestic legislation will require beneficiaries to conform to the same standards as they do currently, to receive payments. This will include on-site inspections to UK farms receiving payments, which will continue as normal.All of these rules and processes will remain the same until Defra and the devolved administrations introduce new agriculture policies, either through the Agriculture Bill, or an Agriculture Bill in one or more of the devolved parliaments.The government has pledged to continue to commit the same cash total in funds for farm support until the end of this parliament, expected in 2022. This includes all funding provided for farm support under both Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 of the current CAP. This commitment applies to the whole UK".

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Old 30th Aug 2019, 20:13
  #1809 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
I keep seeing across on-line media similar statements to the above, and I know that people appear not to believe or trust any government site, however, the link I have posted numerous times would appear to be at odds with that often held view on the lack of any Brexit preparations:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...u-with-no-deal
I have taken the time to read it. Thanks for the link.

it is a middle of the road explanation of expectations. They have clearly covered all of the issues but there is still an assumption that there will be a May deal.

Time will tell. I hope to be pleasantly surprised

all things being equal I would have prefered not to have a referendum. We did and we have gone so far now that it is as humiliating to stay in as it is risky to leave. The status quo anti is not an option. Remaining in the EU and attempting to reform from withing is also not an option.

the UK will get on with it. Like Cortez when he burnt his ships (if he really did), a no deal Brexit will focus all our minds.

I bet flights will be very cheap end October beginning of November. Every cloud

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Old 30th Aug 2019, 20:43
  #1810 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
I have taken the time to read it. Thanks for the link.

it is a middle of the road explanation of expectations. They have clearly covered all of the issues but there is still an assumption that there will be a May deal.

Time will tell. I hope to be pleasantly surprised

all things being equal I would have prefered not to have a referendum. We did and we have gone so far now that it is as humiliating to stay in as it is risky to leave. The status quo anti is not an option. Remaining in the EU and attempting to reform from withing is also not an option.

the UK will get on with it. Like Cortez when he burnt his ships (if he really did), a no deal Brexit will focus all our minds.

I bet flights will be very cheap end October beginning of November. Every cloud
No problem, though I did not mean to imply that it was the answer to all issues and there are still incomplete areas as I think they still require some EU acceptance/Input, if I have read some parts of it correctly.

Fly Airpt:
Concerning farming : beneficiaries will have to continue to conform to the same standard as currently.
I would hope they will and would not expect any to spend money to change their operation and lower standards that are not acceptable to the EU if they want to continue selling their goods to them, I also believe that it has been mentioned before that some of UK's standards are higher than the EU's.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:05
  #1811 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Fly Airpt:

I would hope they will and would not expect any to spend money to change their operation and lower standards that are not acceptable to the EU if they want to continue selling their goods to them,
This is where we observers from abroad are wondering :
How would producing with the same standards as before, but having to incur additional tariffs that didn't exist before, be considered a better situation than the present one ?
Farm products from the UK will be at a disadvantage in the EU.

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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:14
  #1812 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
This is where we observers from abroad are wondering :
How would producing with the same standards as before, but having to incur additional tariffs that didn't exist before, be considered a better situation than the present one ?
Farm products from the UK will be at a disadvantage in the EU.
Are you thinking that UK businesses would risk not being able to export their products to the EU by lowering their standards to save money to compensate for additional tariffs, surely that would put them out of business and would not make sense.

From some remain opinions the UK would need to stop exporting farm produce as it would be required to stop the UK population from starving due to shortages of food from the EU
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:42
  #1813 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Genuine question - How many logistics centres do the likes of DHL, FEDEX have equipped with the customs apparatus and whatever else is required to handle goods entering the EU28 from outside the EU28?

Then consider to comply with the GFA you'd have to put similar centres (albeit smaller) facilities on every border crossing between NI and the RoI.
All 200 plus of them.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:46
  #1814 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post


RFID tagging and similar is very clever and sure, it lets you track a box...but it does not the same thing as all as customs checks, Phytosanitary checks etc, or the all other aspects involved in "taking back control".
All a RFID tag will do is tell you that the tag has passed a checking point, doesn't need to have anything associated with it. Anybody who has received an empty box from the South American river company and contacted them and will get details of where it was but zero proof anything was ever in a box.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:49
  #1815 (permalink)  
 
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I still can not see us all starving either, true there may be some losses coming into the country from the EU but we also export foods to the EU that will need to go somewhere so we can divert that to our markets. And there are many items that come in from Countries outside the EU already.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:50
  #1816 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Are you thinking that UK businesses would risk not being able to export their products to the EU by lowering their standards to save money to compensate for additional tariffs, surely that would put them out of business and would not make sense.
Actually, my cause for wonder was, after all the talks of "the EU's shackles", "being prisoners" etc. it seems strange that continuing to apply the EU's regulations but now incuring tariffs could be considered desirable.
What was the point of leaving ?

From some remain opinions the UK would need to stop exporting farm produce as it would be required to stop the UK population from starving due to shortages of food from the EU
Fact is the UK has to import about 50% of its food (30% from the EU, 20% from the rest of the world).
Food from the EU will be more expensive, that's all. And since the UK is establishing deals with the US, the US part of food import will presumably increase.
American meat, talk about "high standards"...;-)

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Old 30th Aug 2019, 21:57
  #1817 (permalink)  
 
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Parcel wise if I order anything from the US etc it eventually arrives having had a customs declaration on it at source, it goes through a sorting office that calculates the duty then I pay it on receipt, Eire and Ireland must also have that facility to process parcels from the rest of the world, so surely post wise they just need to send any parcels to each Country through those hubs.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 22:00
  #1818 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Eire and Ireland
I could correct but why bother.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 22:02
  #1819 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I still can not see us all starving either, true there may be some losses coming into the country from the EU but we also export foods to the EU that will need to go somewhere so we can divert that to our markets.
Not quite sure, but reading your post I get the notion that some here believe that leaving means stopping trading with the EU.
Among other things, leaving is giving up your access to the Single Market.
Your imports and exports will incur tariffs, so you'll pay more for the same imports, and your exports to the EU will be at a disadvantage against goods from other countries.

That's why observers find the idea of leaving with no deal a bit funny.

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Old 30th Aug 2019, 22:04
  #1820 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
I still can not see us all starving either, true there may be some losses coming into the country from the EU but we also export foods to the EU that will need to go somewhere so we can divert that to our markets. And there are many items that come in from Countries outside the EU already.
No problem then. The poor can live on home grown kale and turnips.
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