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BREXIT

Old 29th Aug 2019, 20:33
  #1761 (permalink)  
 
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Still "rehearsing" the 2016 arguments? Well done

Thank you for reading
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 20:43
  #1762 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Go on Fly Aiprt give it a go. You can't be half as funny as those who think a no deal Brexit is a good idea
Ah ah, Mr Manxman, I'm not that kind of guy^^!
Now serious, as an observer watching our neighbours arguing over their removal to go...where to, by the way ?

Nobody in Europe disputes the fact that the UK is leaving. Many are surprised that after the EU has been bending over backwards to suit the UK with the deal, some would prefer quitting with no deal, no project, no nothing.
"Everything's gonna be alright", "this or that will be taken care of", "the Pound will soar", "the fishermen will fare better".
Makes you wonder...
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 20:44
  #1763 (permalink)  
 
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We have Cornish Jack with his endless argument that the population is being held to ransom Very interesting misinterpretation of what I have posted! Intentional or just failure to read what is written? Just to clarify - an attempt is being made to force this country into a situation which was voted for by a MINORITY of those entitled to vote and an even smaller MINORITY of the total population. That's it, nice and simple, no demands for payment, unless Johnson's puppet-master (the odious Aussie) infects him with another 350,000 fever! There are, of course, different metrics but they do not invalidate those I quote. Re, the 43%, or whatever, in the joining process - I have no note of the numbers but I do know that there was nothing remotely as controversial as this present stupidity - called (let us not forget) to bolster the power base of a disgracefully inept and irresponsible leader of the Tory Party. His subsequent availability .for public scrutiny of his actions matched only by that of the present incumbent.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...
"The public voted to leave
About time you accepted the decision made by the British public
The affront to democracy is that too many politicians ignored the result
really democratic to bully, threaten, insult and try to cajole"
... and again and again and NOT A SINGLE attempt to explain what they mean by the terms used!!
One must wonder if Lewis Carroll was sufficiently far-sighted as to envisage the misuse of his working palette? - or perhaps, more likely, Eric Blair's alter ego!!

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Old 29th Aug 2019, 20:50
  #1764 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Islandlad View Post
Brexit is an event yet to happen. It may not happen if clever people find a way.
Or if dumb people do blunder...
Actually the Brexit is most probable. Questions yet to answer : when ? How ? What for ?

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Old 29th Aug 2019, 21:40
  #1765 (permalink)  
 
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Aye up, Cornish Jack is bringing out the red ink, things must be getting serious.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 22:12
  #1766 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Aye up, Cornish Jack is bringing out the red ink, things must be getting serious.
marking his own homework

that never ends well
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 22:47
  #1767 (permalink)  
 
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Let's address each point you've made. Gina Miller and rest are correct forcing a no deal is undemocratic. Because no one voted for that. Not one person. That possibility was not offered at all. No they were told there were only positives. The deal would be easy they were told. They were lied to. This harking on about the 17.4 million being the democratic wishes of the majority of British people is daft. Particularly now that the current regime is carefully dismantling the Democratic process.
No.......the people at the end of the day were presented with arguments for both sides and listened to both, they were offering the possible advantages of leaving and also the possible disadvantages of leaving, they were then asked to vote on one question and one question only, remain or leave, there were no written promises attached to that question on the form as to the terms of either leaving or remaining, and THAT is what you democratically voted on.

No one selling you a car, trying to get elected, selling you lunch, is ever and I mean ever, going to tell you the engine on this car is shot, we are going to raise your taxes, this food is terrible, they are going to tell you the engine purrs like a kitten, we are going to cut your taxes, the food is great,.
It is up you to listen to both sides and decide if what they are telling you is both true and accurate, consider the question presented on the card and then vote accordingly.
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 23:33
  #1768 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
About time you accepted the decision made by the British public rather than just moan that the public were deceived.

We have seen this in Europe. When the elites lose a EU linked referendum they just keep holding fresh referendums until they get the result they want. When they get the result they want first time then that is the end of it.
They were deceived. They were lied to. Who are these elites? The EU were not allowed to take part in the referendum. You're a bit of a conspiracy theorist aren't you? Don't you ever think that the conspiracy came from the Conservative Party?

They have and continue to tell lie after lie.

Don't know why you're blaming the EU.

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Old 29th Aug 2019, 23:48
  #1769 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post


No.......the people at the end of the day were presented with arguments for both sides and listened to both, they were offering the possible advantages of leaving and also the possible disadvantages of leaving, they were then asked to vote on one question and one question only, remain or leave, there were no written promises attached to that question on the form as to the terms of either leaving or remaining, and THAT is what you democratically voted on.

No one selling you a car, trying to get elected, selling you lunch, is ever and I mean ever, going to tell you the engine on this car is shot, we are going to raise your taxes, this food is terrible, they are going to tell you the engine purrs like a kitten, we are going to cut your taxes, the food is great,.
It is up you to listen to both sides and decide if what they are telling you is both true and accurate, consider the question presented on the card and then vote accordingly.
I'd love you to to point out the possible disadvantages of leaving that the leave camp pointed out during the referendum campaign. I'll save you the trouble there were none.

Only the good things. None of which transpired.

No one offered a no deal. If a no deal was offered it would have been defeated and tonight I would be chatting about a BBC documentary about Recce Spitfires instead of the potential disastrous Brexit and the break up of the UK.

No one in a million years at the time would imagine that Boris Johnson would be PM in 2019 about to self destruct the UK.

I sometimes think I've slipped into a crazy alternative universe.



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Old 30th Aug 2019, 00:53
  #1770 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
.the people at the end of the day were presented with arguments for both sides and listened to both, they were offering the possible advantages of leaving and also the possible disadvantages of leaving,
If you're talking about the 2016 referendum in the UK, it would be of great interest to find any press report, video, memorandum, document in which the possible disadvantages of leaving were presented before the vote.
Anything concerning the NI issue, fisheries, agriculture and food, car industry ?
Pending those documents, it seems those issues were discovered by the British public and most politicians after the vote for leave...
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 01:02
  #1771 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
I'd love you to to point out the possible disadvantages of leaving that the leave camp pointed out duringu the referendum campaign. I'll save you the trouble there were none.

Only the good things. None of which transpired

were presented with arguments for both sides and listened to both, they were offering the possible advantages of leaving and also the possible disadvantages of leaving,
You obviously never read the full reply and missed the line out of your quote putting it into context, no doubt you had similar problems when reading the voting question too and what the vote was actually for, I didn't and recognised it for what it was a direct question on staying in or leaving by whatever means it would take, I chose the latter and I am totally 100% behind my choice, obviously you are not, but that was my democratic choice and I voted on it as did the majority, something you fail to comprehend.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 01:09
  #1772 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
I'd love you to to point out the possible disadvantages of leaving that the leave camp pointed out during the referendum campaign. I'll save you the trouble there were none.
The politicians did not necessarily lie : it's just that they didn't even think of the outcome.
And the British public didn't search for information.

I can tell that when they started to speak of leaving, many people in Europe asked at once "how will they manage the Northern Ireland border ?"


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Old 30th Aug 2019, 01:18
  #1773 (permalink)  
 
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If the remain parties put forward the advantages of remaining in the EU then they are by definition the disadvantages of leaving.

If the leave party puts forward the advantages of leaving, then they too are by definition the disadvantages of remaining.

You cannot have it both ways, though some would appear to wish it that way,, the EU from the offset said you cannot leave and cherry pick.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 01:40
  #1774 (permalink)  
 
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I can tell that when they started to speak of leaving, many people in Europe asked at once "how will they manage the Northern Ireland border ?"
The so called "backstop" and managing the Northern Ireland border are nothing more than distractions seized upon by politicians who want to leverage their arguments..

Think about it: The likes of DHL, FEDEX, and several other carriers move goods by air, land and sea, between every country in the world, some in, and some out of the EU. Fresh fruit and other perishables make their way from Chile to Tesco's in your high street within hours.

The transport and tracking of said goods is almost entirely managed with available technology and is supported by people who know what they are doing.

How difficult can it be to manage the transfer of goods and services across a short border like Northern Ireland.

Come on, solutions to problems of this type were available at the outset of negotiations.

Just do it.

IG.
.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 05:51
  #1775 (permalink)  
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Michael Gove to launch 100m no deal advertising blitz *next week* with slogan 'Get Ready'. No 10 toyed with calling it 'take back control' but decided it was too partisan.

Comes in the very week MPs are mounting a last ditch bid to stop no deal.

Dom Cummings is said to have been intimately involved in drawing up the plans. One minister said of timing: 'Dom Cummings is bringing a sub-machine gun to a knife fight'.

Whitehall is ordering t-shirts and mugs with slogan 'Get Ready'





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Old 30th Aug 2019, 06:17
  #1776 (permalink)  
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https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ment-fldcrgz8g

John Bercow is on course for a “collision” with his most senior advisers as he prepares to give MPs the power to thwart Boris Johnson’s Brexit plans, Westminster insiders have said.

The Speaker, who had already repeatedly stated his determination to give the Commons a chance to block no-deal, is furious with the prime minister’s decision to prorogue parliament. Mr Bercow is expected to grant an emergency debate next Tuesday to enable MPs to wrestle control of the order paper from the government. This would give them, and subsequently members of the Lords too, a few sitting days until prorogation to pass legislation seeking to delay or block Brexit.

Any such move is likely to involve revising how emergency debates under the Standing Order No 24 procedure usually work. At present they take place on motions “in neutral terms” that do not make a commitment to a particular, substantive form of action afterwards. In this case, MPs would use the vote to seize control of the order paper to make way for their emergency legislation.

A source told The Times that the Commons clerks were expected to advise that allowing MPs to do so in that way would be unconstitutional. “John will overrule them,” the source said. “Technically they are right but the Speaker is absolutely furious that parliament is being prorogued.” A source closed to the Speaker added: “He could go on a suicide mission. But he is on a collision course, not only with the government but the Queen and the clerks of the House.”.......




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Old 30th Aug 2019, 07:29
  #1777 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post

Think about it: The likes of DHL, FEDEX, and several other carriers move goods by air, land and sea, between every country in the world, some in, and some out of the EU. Fresh fruit and other perishables make their way from Chile to Tesco's in your high street within hours.

The transport and tracking of said goods is almost entirely managed with available technology and is supported by people who know what they are doing.

How difficult can it be to manage the transfer of goods and services across a short border like Northern Ireland.

.

Genuine question - How many logistics centres do the likes of DHL, FEDEX have equipped with the customs apparatus and whatever else is required to handle goods entering the EU28 from outside the EU28?

Then consider to comply with the GFA you'd have to put similar centres (albeit smaller) facilities on every border crossing between NI and the RoI.
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Old 30th Aug 2019, 07:53
  #1778 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post

Come on, solutions to problems of this type were available at the outset of negotiations.

Just do it.
.
The idea of Europe is precisely not having a hard border between ROI and NI, so what you suppose could be done would not work.
Solutions are obvious :
- Having a deal with the UK.
- Preparing a backstop in case of no-deal.


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Old 30th Aug 2019, 07:59
  #1779 (permalink)  
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Then consider to comply with the GFA you'd have to put similar centres (albeit smaller) facilities on every border crossing between NI and the RoI.
The GFA never mentions the border.....

https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users...full_text.html

Just agreement on cross-border cooperation.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegDat..._EN.pdf#page20

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Old 30th Aug 2019, 08:13
  #1780 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC don't let facts spoil another remoaniac whine

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