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BREXIT

Old 26th Aug 2019, 10:31
  #1621 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman
...but I do believe that fear of foreigners, and not even the EU ones, have played a big part in the leave vote.
That's just it. Your belief, misguided at best, yet repeated ad nauseam as though it were some great "truth"

No wonder remoan lost an un-losable referendum
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 10:43
  #1622 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Your passpoer says "British", doesn't break it down further..
Many of us describe ourselves as English, Welsh, Scottish etc rather than British. It does not make us racist.
​​​​​​
I have a Kiwi cousin and a Scottish one, both were born there but our roots are from deepest Westmoreland. The Scot does not identify as other than Scots or British and the Kiwi does not identify as other than Kiwi.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 11:16
  #1623 (permalink)  
 
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Interesting things on this forum, as to statistics (with unrealistic numbers ;-) being meaningful when applied to a certain part of the European population, while being meaningless when applied to some British population in jail ;-)
Some people here might be having issues with reading the provided sources or just with numbers, not very reasssuring on a professional pilots forum^^...

Why not just admit "I don't like such part of the people worldwide, mainly based on the place they are born, reside, etc." ?
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 11:19
  #1624 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Many of us describe ourselves as English, Welsh, Scottish etc rather than British. It does not make us racist.
What about describing others based on the place they are born, reside, come from, post from ?

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Old 26th Aug 2019, 11:34
  #1625 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Pfeffel talking piffle again, this time on pork pies. Claiming the American market will be big for them. The Melton Mowbray pie association is saying that EU special status that they enjoy is more important as from Oct 31st they will no longer be able to claim their singularity of production, in effect losing their patent. Bozza must have a target painted on his shoe.
They also say they only export to Ireland because it is a perishable, short-life span product - whereas BoJo claimed, in true Trump fashion, they also export to places like Thailand and Iceland (to illustrate how unfair it apparently is to not be allowed to the US...). Probably not before long, he will start tweeting made up stuff on his loo break or from his bed.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 12:31
  #1626 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
Question: is the leave vote connected to racism fed by the media like the Sun, DM etc?
The rags in question, several examples of which have appeared numerous times on here, mounted a prolonged and sustained campaign of disinformation for their readership to believe was the truth. Allied to which were the unstinting efforts of Nige, albeit these were as much about the modest self promotion of the Farage brand as they were about supporting the fiction propagated by the ragloids ( a new term, not yet in Roget's Big Book or the OED before the pedants comment ) whose contribution cannot be understated.

The well known British, well principally the English of course, trait for xenophobia when away from our fragrant shores is well known and embarrassing when you encounter those so disposed ...it's a damning indictment when such transpires in "merry " England itself.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 12:34
  #1627 (permalink)  
 
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You revisionists keep on believing the referendum was won because of facebook, cambridge analytica, tabloids if it makes you feel better

We realists know it was lost because the remoaners were just a bit shit
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 12:39
  #1628 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Many of us describe ourselves as English, Welsh, Scottish etc rather than British. It does not make us racist.
​​​​​​
I have a Kiwi cousin and a Scottish one, both were born there but our roots are from deepest Westmoreland. The Scot does not identify as other than Scots or British and the Kiwi does not identify as other than Kiwi.
The "nationality question" is one that causes no end of consternation among the English. The Scots, Welsh and Irish know (or believe they know) what their nationality is. The English can't work out what their nationality is, many say British, when they really consider themselves English. Some, like me consider ourselves British.

The "correct" answer is of course we're all of United Kingdom nationality! Scotland, Wales and (Northern) Ireland are not countries who are members of the United Nations in their own right. That is playing devil's advocate of course. At some stage it's very possible that the Scots will be correct with regard to their nationality if / when they leave the UK.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 12:56
  #1629 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
What about describing others based on the place they are born, reside, come from, post from ?
What about describing others?

Interesting question. Whether the man came from China two centuries ago or last week he is still Chinese though the former will be British. Similarly Indians may be Indian but some thought of as East African, often distinguished by surname, or Sikh based on appearance. An African is not usually identified as African but more usually by his original country which might have been in the Caribbean.

That raised an interesting conundrum for American Afro-American soldiers who realised that my daughter's friend was not Afro-American. They eventually asked if she was Afro-Anglo. Puzzled, she said no. Where was she from they asked? Nottingham was the reply.

I don't know if she would have called herself English, I suspect British.

Similarly we had an Indian born Hindu who was brought to England when he was four. He was British and identified himself as such.

Race and nationality are quite different.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 13:08
  #1630 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
What about describing others?

Interesting question. Whether the man came from China two centuries ago or last week he is still Chinese though the former will be British. Similarly Indians may be Indian but some thought of as East African, often distinguished by surname, or Sikh based on appearance. An African is not usually identified as African but more usually by his original country which might have been in the Caribbean.

That raised an interesting conundrum for American Afro-American soldiers who realised that my daughter's friend was not Afro-American. They eventually asked if she was Afro-Anglo. Puzzled, she said no. Where was she from they asked? Nottingham was the reply.

I don't know if she would have called herself English, I suspect British.

Similarly we had an Indian born Hindu who was brought to England when he was four. He was British and identified himself as such.

Race and nationality are quite different.
Nationality and origin / heritage are both enormous cans of worms.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 13:45
  #1631 (permalink)  
 
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@Saul. Immigration was the all too visible consequence and became the lightning rod ( mixing metaphors shamelessly) for disaffection.. Those arguing against the significance of geography or historic sense of national identity could perhaps hold forth in a Glaswegian or Belfast pub to test their thesis.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 14:51
  #1632 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
@Saul. Immigration was the all too visible consequence and became the lightning rod ( mixing metaphors shamelessly) for disaffection.. Those arguing against the significance of geography or historic sense of national identity could perhaps hold forth in a Glaswegian or Belfast pub to test their thesis.
Immigration was a nice, simple, easy to manipulate and distribute message. Very little thought required from either originator or recipient.

In contrast to which, trade deals, tariffs, employment rights are considerably more complex for example and thus were quietly avoided until they had to come to prominence in the public domain.........subsequent to which, in dribs and drabs, the voting public were given greater insight as to just what one simplistically phrased question really entailed ...........and now we have Boris intent on using this confusion for his own personal naked ambitions.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 26th Aug 2019 at 15:11.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 15:04
  #1633 (permalink)  
 
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"""We realists know it was lost because the remoaners were just a bit shit """

What rot. The result was skewed because the real Brits who live in Europe, and who had done so for more than 15 years, were excluded from voting.

Last edited by Alsacienne; 26th Aug 2019 at 15:31.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 15:13
  #1634 (permalink)  
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They also say they only export to Ireland because it is a perishable, short-life span product - whereas BoJo claimed, in true Trump fashion, they also export to places like Thailand and Iceland (to illustrate how unfair it apparently is to not be allowed to the US...). Probably not before long, he will start tweeting made up stuff on his loo break or from his bed.
Boris was quoting a Department International Trade briefing note, which was quoting a spokesman for Walker & Son. The company did export them as stated (frozen for baking locally), but has now ceased to do so.

https://issuu.com/babnewyork/docs/_o...__food___drink

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49470831
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 15:23
  #1635 (permalink)  
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This should appeal to those whose prefer to misspell democracy .......autocracy being their interpretation of the word.

When you read about diktats such as this one being spewed forth, and it's easy to understand the appeal for those who consider themselves "superiors " and that others should simply do as their damned well told on that basis, it doesn't auger well for any domestic policies which may not meet with political approval because Boris, instead of lying in front, or better still, underneath, a bulldozer is using his own version to override any objections.

In case I've misspelt it, and here on JB that's akin to a capital offence, if we still had the death penalty which, thankfully, we don't, but is my spelling of dictator................ and understanding of the word correct ? ....if not, please explain why.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...no-deal-brexit
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 15:37
  #1636 (permalink)  
 
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Well, after being the world commerce capital in the 17th century, and after inventing things like the bank, the stock market and publicly listed companies, could Amsterdam be ready to take the crown back from London as financial epicentre?:

Nearly 100 companies move to Netherlands ahead of Brexit
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 15:57
  #1637 (permalink)  
 
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Oh I do hope so. My paternal grandfather brought his wife to England in 1911 from a small Dutch fishing port. I wonder if I might qualify for nationality.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 16:02
  #1638 (permalink)  
 
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@K'n'C. Think you are reading the runes wrong. The basic anti-EU elements were well in place prior to the vote. I live in a very pro-brexit area ( albeit not in the Peterborough class) and heard the arguments often enough. The perceived lack of principle in the remainers has hardened attitudes. Not sure why I said perceived when I can offer JC as an example. Right or wrong, that's the boots on the ground
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 19:08
  #1639 (permalink)  
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https://www.politico.eu/article/expe...uk-eu-ireland/

Experts propose alternative to Brexit backstop

LONDON – A team of experts, including a former high-ranking British official in the European Commission, has drawn up a plan to replace the Northern Ireland backstop, which has become the major hurdle to a Brexit deal.

They say the plan has already attracted "considerable interest."

The proposal, drawn up by Jonathan Faull — who held several director general posts and was head of a special Commission task force on Brexit — and legal academics Joseph Weiler and Daniel Sarmiento, "maintains the integrity of both the EU’s single market and the UK’s territory;" "does not require Ireland to be treated differently from the rest of the EU or Northern Ireland to be treated differently from Great Britain;" and "does not tie the U.K. to the EU customs union, thus allowing the U.K. to pursue its own trade policy," the group told POLITICO.

Its core principle is that the U.K. and EU are free to have distinct regulatory systems and customs regimes, but the U.K. and Ireland would make it a criminal offense to knowingly export goods across the Irish border that breach regulatory rules on the other side of the frontier.

To avoid customs checks at the border, the proposal envisages a network of "EU Trade Centres" in the U.K. and Ireland, but away from the border, in which "all goods destined for the EU or the U.K. respectively via Northern Ireland would be processed, including payment of duties and the like, before they actually left British or Irish territory."

The group drew up the plan in response to the rising probability of a no-deal Brexit. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has said he will take the U.K. out of the EU with or without an agreement — "do or die" — by October 31.

"As the prospect of a No Deal became frighteningly real we thought we would act," Faull, Weiler and Sarmiento said in an email. "And we believed that maybe a fresh look and fresh minds not locked in to hardened positions could come up with something useful. We have grown increasingly frustrated at the tone of the debate and want to show that there is a practicable solution which should satisfy both sides."

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Old 27th Aug 2019, 05:19
  #1640 (permalink)  
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The fine art of nepotism / cronyism or just good old Tory 's backside, tongue inserting and lickingism .........we await the announcement of Lord A Banks ( subject to a few outstanding alleged criminal investigations ) ......and it was a heart warming gesture from Boris to support George and his aspirations even if wiser heads have prevailed....thankfully........

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...house-of-lords
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