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BREXIT

Old 21st Aug 2019, 13:54
  #1381 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Barksdale Boy View Post
According to Fly Aiprt's #1358, we were not "cunned" into signing an unfair agreement. Thank goodness for that, although I suppose some might have enjoyed it.
Historically, it has probably been the leading cause of subsequently regrettable decisions to be fair!
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 13:55
  #1382 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc
So you’re going to end the free movement of EU citizens but you’re going to leave the back door wide open?
I am not convinced Eire would appreciate being known by the rest of the eu as the UK's 'back door', but if you're comfortable asserting that who am I to argue?

Why, if post-Brexit UK is doomed to fail and be such a Godawful place (remoaner theory #12), will all these folk from the post-Brexit wonderful eu want to travel via Eire back into the UK?

If you guys could just be a tiny bit consistent it'd make discussion so much more interesting.

Thank you for reading.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:00
  #1383 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
I am not convinced Eire would appreciate being known by the rest of the eu as the UK's 'back door', but if you're comfortable asserting that who am I to argue?

Why, if post-Brexit UK is doomed to fail and be such a Godawful place (remoaner theory #12), will all these folk from the post-Brexit wonderful eu want to travel via Eire back into the UK?

If you guys could just be a tiny bit consistent it'd make discussion so much more interesting.

Thank you for reading.
Ireland cannot restrict movement of EU citizens, it’s all part of being in the EU. They’re perfectly entitled to enter Ireland. One of the main points of Brexit was “taking back control”. So how do you propose stopping (illegal) free movement of those EU citizens you want to turf out straight back in via the back door? That isn’t Ireland’s problem, they’re perfectly legal to enter Ireland.

I know you say it is a repeated strawman question, but nobody has actually answered it.

Edit: It’s perfectly okay to admit you don’t know by the way. Nobody in your government has been able to answer it either.


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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:10
  #1384 (permalink)  
 
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For many years before the eu people who made it to Eire could under CTA make it to UK. So nothing new.

However why, if The UK is about to suffer armageddon when we leave, will so many people want to leave the sunny uplands to get here by whatever means possible? It is this logical inconsistency that destroys remoaner theory #12.

As yet no answer.

In the same way remoaners allege leave voters 'blame the eu for everything', it seems that remoaners blame brexit for everything!

Have a lovely afternoon. I'm off for a few hours working

Thank you for reading
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:13
  #1385 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post

In the same way remoaners allege leave voters 'blame the eu for everything',
Well if the cap fits, wear it...

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a9072536.html
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:17
  #1386 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc View Post


Ireland cannot restrict movement of EU citizens, it’s all part of being in the EU. They’re perfectly entitled to enter Ireland. One of the main points of Brexit was “taking back control”. So how do you propose stopping (illegal) free movement of those EU citizens you want to turf out straight back in via the back door? That isn’t Ireland’s problem, they’re perfectly legal to enter Ireland.

I know you say it is a repeated strawman question, but nobody has actually answered it.
I know you are doing your best to get a straight answer to your questions, but you are going to fail.
It's no good expecting an answer from the flock of sheep following Boris. They are only capable of chanting "Baaaaa-rexit" as he leads them to the farm gate and the waiting truck to the slaughterhouse.

None of us knows what will happen in Ireland after Halloween. Trick or treat? But we'll soon find out.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:18
  #1387 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
For many years before the eu people who made it to Eire could under CTA make it to UK. So nothing new.

However why, if The UK is about to suffer armageddon when we leave, will so many people want to leave the sunny uplands to get here by whatever means possible? It is this logical inconsistency that destroys remoaner theory #12.

As yet no answer.

In the same way remoaners allege leave voters 'blame the eu for everything', it seems that remoaners blame brexit for everything!

Have a lovely afternoon. I'm off for a few hours working

Thank you for reading
That doesn’t answer how you will prevent illegal movement of EU citizens into NI who have entered the ROI legally. As things stand, the only time anyone’s ID is checked when moving between the UK and Ireland is when checking in for a flight. There are no checks on the ferries, and certainly none on the border.

The CTA operated pre EU because the same people needed visas for both countries. If BoJo ends free movement, that will no longer be the case.

Have a good day’s work.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:28
  #1388 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I know you are doing your best to get a straight answer to your questions, but you are going to fail.
It's no good expecting an answer from the flock of sheep following Boris. They are only capable of chanting "Baaaaa-rexit" as he leads them to the farm gate and the waiting truck to the slaughterhouse.

None of us knows what will happen in Ireland after Halloween. Trick or treat? But we'll soon find out.
The saddest thing is nobody knows what will happen in the UK either. I don’t really care anymore whether the UK leaves or not, your decision, none of my business. But the absolute shambles that this whole process has been so far would be funny if it wasn’t so serious. It makes Trump look considered and careful.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:30
  #1389 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
However why, if The UK is about to suffer armageddon when we leave, will so many people want to leave the sunny uplands to get here by whatever means possible? It is this logical inconsistency that destroys remoaner theory #12.

As yet no answer.
No need for much imagination^^!
Smuggle, sell and buy illegal goods, money laundering, run away from law, illegally settle in a land with weak control of its borders...?

BTW, why would armageddon be a theory ? Maybe just one of several probable outcomes.

Originally Posted by bpilatus View Post
In the same way remoaners allege leave voters 'blame the eu for everything', it seems that remoaners blame brexit for everything!
"Nah nah nah,I know you are, but what am I..."





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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:48
  #1390 (permalink)  
 
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@SA. Blimey, you been thrown out of the school playground early ? Bah to you to. Now on a more thoughtful level....
The logical conclusion is that Eire has made a choice and one consequence is that the historic links between Eire and the UK will have to be tested and perhaps redrawn,that however presupposes the results of the negotiations that will soon start if Boris gets his way. The consequences on the political situation in Ulster remain to be seen but social integration seems to be making little progress owing.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:51
  #1391 (permalink)  
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Since you ask so nicely......

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/e...uk.html#l6d872

Border Control and the Common Travel Area

There are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens travelling between the 2 countries. You do not need to have a passport to enter the other country. However, all air and sea carriers require some form of identification and some regard a passport as the only valid identification. Immigration authorities may also require you to have valid official photo-identification which shows your nationality. As you are being asked to prove that you are an Irish or UK citizen who is entitled to avail of the Common Travel Area arrangements, it is advisable to travel with your passport.

The Common Travel Area also involves some co-operation on matters relating to immigration issues. A third country national, for example, may be refused permission to enter Ireland if they intend to travel onwards to the UK and they would not qualify for admission to the UK under the Aliens (Amendment) Order 1975. Irish immigration officers have the power to carry out checks on people arriving in the State from the UK and to refuse them entry to the State on the same grounds as apply to people arriving from outside the Common Travel Area. These checks are carried out selectively.

In December 2011, the Irish and UK governments agreed measures to secure the external Common Travel Area border. This includes exchanging biographic and biometric visa data and co-operating on information about failed asylum seekers. There is a joint UK-Ireland Common Travel Area Forum which implements these measures.

People with UK visas or residence permits

If you are a citizen of a country whose nationals need a visa to enter Ireland and you have a valid UK visa or residence permit, you may be required to have a visa to enter Ireland before you arrive in Ireland. The Short Stay Visa Waiver Programme allows nationals of a number of Eastern European, Middle East and Asian countries who have a short-term UK visa to come to Ireland without the need for a separate Irish visa. This programme has been extended to 31 October 2021.

Reciprocal visa arrangements: A British Irish Visa Scheme applies to visitors from China since 20 October 2014 and to visitors from India since 9 February 2015. This scheme allows visitors from these countries to travel freely within the Common Travel Area (in this case, Ireland and the UK but not the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man), using either an Irish or UK visa.

Both schemes are provided for in the Immigration Act (Visas) Order 2014 (SI 473/2014) as amended by Immigration Act (Visas) Order 2016 (SI 502/2016).

You can get further information about visa applications in our document, Visa requirements for entering Ireland, or from Irish embassies and consulates abroad.

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Old 21st Aug 2019, 14:52
  #1392 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc View Post


The saddest thing is nobody knows what will happen in the UK either. I don’t really care anymore whether the UK leaves or not, your decision, none of my business. But the absolute shambles that this whole process has been so far would be funny if it wasn’t so serious. It makes Trump look considered and careful.
It is shameful. I weep for my country.

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Old 21st Aug 2019, 15:10
  #1393 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
It is shameful. I weep for my country.
Yes this is a shambles, but there are reasons for hope :

- The UK is still in the EU, and probably for more than two and half months
- When - and if - they leave, a miracle may happen
- If not, the UK - or what will be left of it - may re-apply for membership in the future. Hopefully this time the EU will keep a tight rein on this old-new applicant ;-)

And last but not least, friendly Britons will always be friendly welcome !

Last edited by Fly Aiprt; 21st Aug 2019 at 15:56.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 15:49
  #1394 (permalink)  
 
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But that is what democracy is, you have a vote and you stick to it, not like Eire and the EU vote where they took two attempts before they got the result the EU wanted, that sadly is NOT democracy and neither is what the remainers would have us do and retake the vote.

Remember this and the furore over it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-lisbon-treaty
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 16:17
  #1395 (permalink)  
 
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Eire is not in schengen . Should millions of asylum seekers make it to Cork. Then hitch hike up to Belfast across an open border in that direction..Then still proceed unnoticed, in the pishing rain and fog, to either the airport or port .. then get on a boat or plane and make it to Liverpool , well good luck to them ...
‘All NI has to do is say no benefits or housing or anything, to anyone crossing the border without the correct entitlement to such state aid..
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 16:18
  #1396 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly the ensuing negotiations are going to harden attitudes on both sides and may never reach agreement. If matters carry on as they are the political future should be clear by Christmas. It isn't a shambles, though I can see from your point of view why you want to call it that to denigrate anyone who has the gall to hold a differing opinion from yours, nor should anyone be shedding tears ( actually they aren't). Democracy is based on mutual understanding, tolerance and a willingness to compromise. If democracy is in fact strained, Remainers using the language of some here are equally as guilty as the trenchant brexiteers ( aka sheep).
Goodbye to you all, I have an ignore list to attend to.
Sheesh.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 16:25
  #1397 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Yes this is a shambles, but there are reasons for hope :

- The UK is still in the EU, and probably for more than two and half months
- When - and if - they leave, a miracle may happen
- If not, the UK - or what will be left of it - may re-apply for membership in the future. Hopefully this time the EU will keep a tight rein on this old-new applicant ;-)

And last but not least, friendly Britons will always be friendly welcome !
There will not be another referendum or another delay. I think most of us accepted after the 2016 referendum that it was definitive. The lies and false promises have won.
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 16:29
  #1398 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
But that is what democracy is, you have a vote and you stick to it, not like Eire and the EU vote where they took two attempts before they got the result the EU wanted, that sadly is NOT democracy and neither is what the remainers would have us do and retake the vote.

Remember this and the furore over it.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-lisbon-treaty
Very good ! a must read for K & C I should think as it’s from his favourite source.
As for “ I weep for my country “ ( quote from S Ann )
Such melodrama, very Eva Peron in Evita, gave me a much needed laugh !
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 16:29
  #1399 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Orac, Thanks for that.

The issue I’m trying to make clear is that the CTA under current arrangement works because Latvians, Romanians etc have free movement in both the UK and Ireland. After November 1st under current proposals, they’ll no longer have free movement in the UK but will in Ireland. They’ll enter Ireland perfectly legally and as things stand Britain can’t do a thing to stop them entering via NI unless it puts a border somewhere, whether that’s between NI & ROI or between Britain & NI.

SARF, as I’m trying to make clear, your problem isn’t asylum seekers, it’s those legally entitled to enter ROI but not the UK, how do you know if they’re in the UK or not?
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Old 21st Aug 2019, 16:48
  #1400 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
Any action by the Irish government that put the CTA at risk (and joining Schengen would surely make that a certainty) would mean them having to face the ire (excuse the pun!) of the Irish population. Looking at the UK resident posters here who themselves, or thought their Irish parents/grandparents, have benefitted from the CTA enabling them to move freely to the UK and settle here. The removal of that ability by any action such as joining Schengen would probably be 'terminal' for the Irish government of the day.
So how are UK Border agency going to police 208 crossings, 310 miles of border with a population who refuses to allow them do it ?
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