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BREXIT

Old 7th Mar 2021, 16:39
  #10041 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
Did 'being in the EU' stop Czech republic from sourcing the 'Sputnik' vaccine from russia?
Was it the EU or was it italy who decided to stop the shipment of vaccine to australia?
I suspect you're wasting your time asking those sorts of questions..

Answering it honestly means admitting that the UK never lost sovereignty when it was a member of the EU.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 16:49
  #10042 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
I suspect you're wasting your time asking those sorts of questions..

Answering it honestly means admitting that the UK never lost sovereignty when it was a member of the EU.
Yeah, i was asking myself why i even bother...
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 16:59
  #10043 (permalink)  
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Public Health Warning : Scoured news ! ...and you wouldn't believe how deep I had to delve here...

Anyway, lets say it isn't good news....it appears that well known combination of Gov't planning and communication has continued in the time honoured tradition.....along with a few budget cuts.....thankfully, Dido's paltry £37bn escaped these ......Boris will doubtless class this state of affairs as being "oven ready " .

British ports say they are not ready for Brexit customs checks | Business | The Guardian

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 7th Mar 2021 at 17:17.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 17:58
  #10044 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by antheads View Post
Scratch your head and have a think... it's staring you right in the face.. Britain has vaccinated 30 percent of it's population with the first jab. Germany a pitiful 6 percent, other EU countries far less. This will literally save thousands of lives and as we reach full vaccination the European Union will lag behind for months with more deaths. . If that isn't a benefit that can be seen as point of difference between how GB and EU work then i don't know what is. But it's so much easier to bleat about racism and muh Britain Bad
I wonder why so many brexiters confuse brexit with the exceptional vaccination rollout in the UK. And yes, as an EU citizen i have absolutely no problem admitting that the UK is quite a bit better at that than my own home country which is not hampered by the EU, but rather by its own complete ineptitude. But the UK vaccination program and emergency certification was done under EU rules, so has basically nothing to do with Brexit.

One thing to keep in mind however, while germany has only vaccinated around 6%, and around 3% with both doses (UK 1,6%), it also has managed to kill 70.000 fewer of its own citizens while having 20 million more inhabitants and suffering a far less economic decline. And of course, it has been able to offer free hospital capacity to its neighbors on all sides as it has a very high number of both ICU beds and staff for it.

Of course, as others here have pointed out, it is not the EU per se doing the vaccination program, in fact, until late summer 2020 the EU had absolutely no authority in anything health related except common standards. It was, and largely still is, in the authority of each member country. And each of those has its own and very unique health system with a very different setup compared to other EU countries.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 20:02
  #10045 (permalink)  
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I wonder why so many brexiters confuse brexit with the exceptional vaccination rollout in the UK
It’s all they’ve got, and it keeps alive their hope that the EU collapses.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 20:15
  #10046 (permalink)  
 
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‘Just give me one benefit of Brexit’
Well, one simpleton stuck his head above the parapet and claimed leaving the EU allowed us to vaccinate more people than if we had remained inside. That was debunked immediately.
So, can any brexiteer give us one example of a Brexit dividend. Please, please try, an extra 350 million quid a week for the NHS, or how well the fishing industry would succeed outside the EU?....anybody?
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 20:24
  #10047 (permalink)  
 
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Well Trump, Putin, Xi Jinping and kim jong un all thought it was a good idea, what could go wrong?
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 22:06
  #10048 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by antheads View Post
Scratch your head and have a think... it's staring you right in the face.. Britain has vaccinated 30 percent of it's population with the first jab. Germany a pitiful 6 percent, other EU countries far less. This will literally save thousands of lives and as we reach full vaccination the European Union will lag behind for months with more deaths. . If that isn't a benefit that can be seen as point of difference between how GB and EU work then i don't know what is. But it's so much easier to bleat about racism and muh Britain Bad
This is the reason so many people voted leave. They don’t have a clue! Being I the EU doesn’t stop you from having your own vaccination program. You can go with theirs or go your own way. It is not such a dictatorial relationship as many believe. The better way to have gone as opposed to leaving would have been the German or french way. Do what they say when it benefits and disregard when it doesn’t.

The biggest problem we ever had being in the EU was instead of looking at regulations and abiding to the letter, we had to abide by the whole bloody alphabet!!
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 22:14
  #10049 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by handysnaks View Post
It’s all they’ve got, and it keeps alive their hope that the EU collapses.
The EU will never collapse. Just like the US will never break apart. All through history areas/countries become more homogeneous. We may take a few steps back every now and then but in the main it is always the same. More integration. It may be 100 or even 300 years from now (if we make it that far. One of the reasons I think they have never found intelligent life in the universe yet. They destroy themselves) but there will be one world government, as it should be. If you really believe everyone is equal then everyone should have the same rights, benefits, opportunities as each other.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:35
  #10050 (permalink)  
 
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Delusional Utopianism. The Ottoman Empire and the Soviet Union disagrees with you. Don't see a reintegration there after a 'step back.' For Greater Yugoslavia comrade! The European monetary experiment is nearly over thank god. It won't survive the next financial shock.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:44
  #10051 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by highflyer40 View Post
The biggest problem we ever had being in the EU was instead of looking at regulations and abiding to the letter, we had to abide by the whole bloody alphabet!!
Nail hit firmly on the head; plus of course the usual suspects trying to blame the EU for red tape put in place domestically in the UK, whether by government, insurance companies, judges or whoever else.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:47
  #10052 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by antheads View Post
Delusional Utopianism. The Ottoman Empire and the Soviet Union disagrees with you. Don't see a reintegration there after a 'step back.' For Greater Yugoslavia comrade! The European monetary experiment is nearly over thank god. It won't survive the next financial shock.
you forgot to mention the british empire...
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:48
  #10053 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
you forgot to mention the british empire...
..................
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:51
  #10054 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by antheads View Post
Delusional Utopianism. The Ottoman Empire and the Soviet Union disagrees with you. Don't see a historical reintegration there after a 'step back.' For Greater Yugoslavia comrade! The European Union is nearly over thank god. It won't survive the next financial shock.
This must be a joke, surely? Of course any union forged by tanks rolling into foreign territory is bound to fail eventually. The British Empire being no exception.

Unless I’m sorely mistaken, the EU was born out of a Union of nations willingly working together towards a common economic goal, and a way in which to end centuries of infra-European fighting. Short of the minority in England who seem to want to see it fail - and invariably the political instability from such a fallout - it appears the EU outside of little England is actually fairly well supported, despite its faults.

Due largely to Geography, Britain wasn’t invaded in the last century. The scars of war (quickly fading from living memory) are covered by the bandage of being amongst the victors in the last war. This is what feeds into our exceptionality, and which is why we have always had a large wave skepticism of the EU in the mindset of people here in England. To wish such an institution to fail is to denigrate all the work and sacrifice previous generations have made to see stability in the U.K. and Europe. Patriotism indeed.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 08:53
  #10055 (permalink)  
 
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you forgot to mention the british empire...
Exactly. The Brittish Empire and German Reich is over. So why try and recreate it with the EU?


Unless I’m sorely mistaken, the EU was born out of a Union of nations willingly working together towards a common economic goal,
That's how it was born, that's not it is now. As Greece and the European south has learnt its a tool to impose Franco-German economic hegemony on the continent. The monetary union is a failed project bringing mass unemployment to countries such as Spain and Greece. Visegrad countries are rebelling against the imposition of western European cultural values. The European Commission is a blundering arrogant bureaucracy that can't even competently negotiate a vaccine supply.

Your solution of a supranational political union as the final solution to avoid war is daft. It seems Canada/USA and India/China has avoided a second war without one.

Last edited by antheads; 8th Mar 2021 at 09:07.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 09:00
  #10056 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by antheads View Post
Exactly. The Brittish Empire and German Reich is over. So why try and recreate it with the EU?
We (germans) are not trying to recreate it, we are trying to work together closely with our neighbours. You (Brexiteers) can't get over the fact that you have to discuss things with your neighbour. It's called 'working together'. This is not allowed to be part of your delusional rememberance of how great the british were.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 09:01
  #10057 (permalink)  
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Unless I’m sorely mistaken, the EU was born out of a Union of nations willingly working together towards a common economic goal
May I mention The Hanseatic League?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 09:02
  #10058 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by antheads View Post

<snip>

That's how it was born, that's not it is now. As Greece and the european south has learnt its a tool to impose franco-german economic hegemony on the continent. The Euro is a failed project bringing mass unemployment to countries such as Spain and Greece.
What did the 'franco-german economic hegemony' do to greece? They paid greeces bills!
Still asking myself why i even bother...
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 09:06
  #10059 (permalink)  
 
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Of course nothing is forever. Obviously at some point the EU might cease to exist, either by falling apart or morphing into the USE (United States of Europe). However, there are no signs for either thing to happen anytime soon. Will the EU change? Obviously, it always has changed, it will continue to do so, probably at a faster pace now that the UK is outside of its decision making processes. Pro-EU sentiment within the EU is nearly at an all time high at the moment, at least partly thanks to the UK leaving, there are still quite a few countries eager to join, and no, Turkey is just on the books but not going anywhere.

There are currently more credible threats to the union of the four nations in the UK, than there are for the EU to dissolve tomorrow.

And no, the EU is not the attempt at recreating either a British Empire or a German Reich (that never really existed in the first place), as those were nation states trying to swallow up the rest of the continent or earth. It is an international organization, not a state, in which states willingly pool resources to create a better environment for all of them and prevent conflict by being so intertwined that war against each other is simply preposterous. So far that is actually working very well indeed.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 09:06
  #10060 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by antheads View Post
Exactly. The Brittish Empire and German Reich is over. So why try and recreate it with the EU?



That's how it was born, that's not it is now. As Greece and the european south has learnt its a tool to impose franco-german economic hegemony on the continent. The Euro is a failed project bringing mass unemployment to countries such as Spain and Greece.
.... but Greece and Spain haven’t left the Union, do you not question why? Of course if you were to compare the EU to the Third Reich or the Soviet Union then they wouldn’t have the freedom to leave and ‘forge their own destiny, to sunlit uplands etc etc..’. With the U.K. having left it shows a fundamental flaw in your argument.

Weren't Greece a little economical with the truth in their financial standing on applying to become an EU member state (and on joining the Euro)? You must question just how much of their financial trouble can be apportioned to the EU.

The Euro argument doesn’t apply to the U.K., we kept to Sterling. So its null and void when discussing Brexit.
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