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BREXIT

Old 5th Feb 2021, 08:58
  #9541 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
Wonder if the EU will demand 71 pages of documentation when we start exporting vaccines to them and will leave the vaccines at the port for 5 days
Nose and face comes to mind....

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/...ing-destroyed/


Brexit Border Friction Leads To Life Saving Cancer Drug Consignments Being Destroyed



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Old 5th Feb 2021, 09:02
  #9542 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
These hindrances to trade were, in essence, what "leave" voters voted for, although the UK could and should have kept closer to the EU in areas such as agriculture and fish from a health perspective, especially since those two industry sectors, for whatever reason voted heavily for Brexit. However, dogma from the extremist Brexiteers ensured that was not going to happen.
Don't forget some Leave voters (?) claimed a post-Brexit free trade deal with the EU being the “easiest in human history" (Liam Fox), " The day after we vote to leave, we hold all the cards and we can choose the path we want." (Michael Gove) and of course lets not forget "There is no plan for no deal, because we’re going to get a great deal" ( a certain Boris Johnson)..

Yet here the UK is, with third nation status with the EU when it comes to trade, and all that pretty much automatically goes with it..
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:00
  #9543 (permalink)  
 
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The EU have made a great deal of the need for a level playing field.

in order to solve the problem of fish exports the UK should insist that all EU boats fishing in UK waters must land their entire catches in UK ports, then use exactly the same 71 pieces of paper before exporting the fish to the EU. After all, all of these fish are being caught in the same Third Country waters, so the health hazards and need for paperwork must be the same.

That sounds like a level playing field to me.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:06
  #9544 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
Wonder if the EU will demand 71 pages of documentation when we start exporting vaccines to them and will leave the vaccines at the port for 5 days to make a statement? Actually they will. Not to mention sending in the sniffer dogs trained to find ham sandwiches.

Makes me wonder how the EU trades with the rest of the world particularly when a container ship arrives in port
These are your wonderful WTO arrangements. You remember? Better than a bad deal?

You won, get over it.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:10
  #9545 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
The EU have made a great deal of the need for a level playing field.

in order to solve the problem of fish exports the UK should insist that all EU boats fishing in UK waters must land their entire catches in UK ports, then use exactly the same 71 pieces of paper before exporting the fish to the EU. After all, all of these fish are being caught in the same Third Country waters, so the health hazards and need for paperwork must be the same.

That sounds like a level playing field to me.
The EU boats are still operating to recognised EU standards, the ones in the U.K. aren’t necessarily doing so. Cos we’ve left. Why is it so hard to see?
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:16
  #9546 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
The EU have made a great deal of the need for a level playing field.

in order to solve the problem of fish exports the UK should insist that all EU boats fishing in UK waters must land their entire catches in UK ports, then use exactly the same 71 pieces of paper before exporting the fish to the EU. After all, all of these fish are being caught in the same Third Country waters, so the health hazards and need for paperwork must be the same.

That sounds like a level playing field to me.
The UK side of the playing field was level for many years......it's now been converted into a quagmire.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:39
  #9547 (permalink)  
 
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Oh the irony; Cornish fishermen on the TV last night saying that they bitterly regret voting to leave the EU after believing the lies and BS they were fed by BoJo, Cove, Cummings and gang.

Are we allowed to say, with a deep sigh, "Well, we did tell you that it was all lies"?
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:44
  #9548 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Yes, I understand what happened, but what hasn't been explained is why it happened. What stopped the Vaccine Alliance from continuing with their initiative? If the EU somehow forced them to cease what they were doing (which has never been openly stated, AFAIK) then what authority did the EU have to do this?

It still seems to be a complete mystery as to why this early procurement plan by France, Germany, The Netherlands and Italy was stopped and handed over to the EU to manage, in effect. After all, as already mentioned, Hungary carried on with its independent plan, as did the UK (and technically the UK was bound by much the same rules at that time, I believe).
I think the answer is simple and obvious. Those countries decided it was easier to let the EU negotiate a bulk deal, rather than all having to negotiate separately for smaller quantities at probably higher prices.

In any case, LTNman's claim "I don’t know how anyone in the U.K. could be happy with a 3% rollout of vaccinations because that is where we would have been." is patently false.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 10:57
  #9549 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by old,not bold View Post
Oh the irony; Cornish fishermen on the TV last night saying that they bitterly regret voting to leave the EU after believing the lies and BS they were fed by BoJo, Cove, Cummings and gang.

Are we allowed to say, with a deep sigh, "Well, we did tell you that it was all lies"?
I've been watching that series for a few weeks now and have been struck at what a bunch of miserable [email protected] they are, whingeing about tourists and how much better things were 100 years ago.

I've no sympathy if they reap what they've sowed.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 11:20
  #9550 (permalink)  
 
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keith williams, sounds like a cunning plan to me!
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 11:52
  #9551 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
The EU have made a great deal of the need for a level playing field.

in order to solve the problem of fish exports the UK should insist that all EU boats fishing in UK waters must land their entire catches in UK ports, then use exactly the same 71 pieces of paper before exporting the fish to the EU. After all, all of these fish are being caught in the same Third Country waters, so the health hazards and need for paperwork must be the same.

That sounds like a level playing field to me.
The level playing field is about it being level for the 27 EU member states: as we are no longer one, we don't set those rules. The EU never stated the level playing field was about protecting the UK, why would it, & how could it? We decided we didn't want to be part of that, remember? Boris's team negotiated the deal we have, so if it's wrong, it's down to them. At least the bureaucracy to land fish in UK ports from both inside & outside the EU is established, although we "plan" to join the NEAFC, no news as to whether we have yet...
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 12:54
  #9552 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
You won, get over it.
Assuming that you have read the last few pages of this thread it might be interesting to clarify what is meant by this statement.

You will have noticed the view that the Brexit vote was substantially influenced by the way that British civil servants over enforced EU legislation.
Which way should people in Britain have voted in the referendum if they felt that they were suffering from this badly enforced legislation ?

You will also have noticed that the population of the Irish Republic has been substantially enriched as a consequence of membership of the EU, whereas the population of Northern Ireland has, to all appearances, been left behind.
Which way should people in Northern Ireland have voted ?
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:15
  #9553 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by occasional View Post
You will have noticed the view that the Brexit vote was substantially influenced by the way that British civil servants over enforced EU legislation.
This is not true at all. The Civil Service had no part in that, trust me, I was a Civil Servant working for a time in that area and it was parliament's mandate that we MUST turn all EU Directives into UK law that drove everyone mad - there was unanimous agreement amongst everyone I knew working in that area that the UK parliament was behaving in a barking mad way - all it did was create a massive headache for everyone involved, from the Civil Service trying to implement what parliament had mandated down to people buying goods, and everyone in between.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:16
  #9554 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by old,not bold View Post
Oh the irony; Cornish fishermen on the TV last night saying that they bitterly regret voting to leave the EU after believing the lies and BS they were fed by BoJo, Cove, Cummings and gang.

Are we allowed to say, with a deep sigh, "Well, we did tell you that it was all lies"?
That's a handful of Tory seats going to either the LibDems or Labour come the next GE. Voters don't like being lied to or deceived; as Nick Clegg learnt to his cost over university tuition fees during the coalition years 2010 - 2015, and how the LibDems got annihilated in the 2015 election.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:23
  #9555 (permalink)  
 
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occasional - it would seem that your own personal views, on the motives of Brexit voters, are the basis of your argument and query. I would suggest that there were other, less thought-through, reasons. Your observations, on the relative prosperities of Ulster and Eire, will be modified in what respect, as a result of the agreement negotiated by the Buffoon's 'oven-ready deal' ?
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:31
  #9556 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by occasional View Post
Assuming that you have read the last few pages of this thread it might be interesting to clarify what is meant by this statement.
i can assure you that i have read not only the last few pages but more or less the complete thread including its earlier manifestations...

You will have noticed the view that the Brexit vote was substantially influenced by the way that British civil servants over enforced EU legislation.
Was it? I think each Brexiteer had his own reasons for voting how they did. And the explanations why changed over time. British civil servants
and te enforced EU legislations? Gimme' a break. And you will see in the coming years how much leaner your cilvil service is going to become.
How many new customs officers are you going to need? I think the reasons for most brexiteers to vote leave fitted perfectly onto the side of a
bus. Or can be decribed as xenophobia. If you want to 'intellectualize' the reasoning, go on, but don't try to fool us.
Which way should people in Britain have voted in the referendum if they felt that they were suffering from this badly enforced legislation ?

You will also have noticed that the population of the Irish Republic has been substantially enriched as a consequence of membership of the EU, whereas the population of Northern Ireland has, to all appearances, been left behind.
Which way should people in Northern Ireland have voted ?
That the people in Northern Ireland are left behind is the fault of the EU? If i remember correctly, the people in
Northern Ireland voted remain?

Oh yes, what was meant by that statement? I thought it was pretty obvious. Standard answer from Brexiteers when confronted with arguments
was: you lost, get over it. Now 'project fear' is turning ito 'project reality'. You won, get over it.

We have (had) a major customer in Falkirk, just sent him an Email that a) prices are going to increase by over 50%, b) we only accept Euros in future
and c) future prices are ex works.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:32
  #9557 (permalink)  
 
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Which way should people in Northern Ireland have voted ?
Curiously very much in the way they did! Sadly for them, since voting in elections in NI largely coincides with which version of the Holy Bible you subscribe to, rather than on the right policies for Northern Ireland, the DUP and other smaller Unionist parties were able to totally ignore the wishes of their electorate as regards Brexit.

Had the DUP followed the wishes of the Northern Irish voters in the referendum from 2016, chances are that Theresa May might have hung on and secured are much better deal for the UK, and possibly even put it to a 2nd referendum, though that I actually doubt. Sadly the DUP didn't, May was sacked, thanks to Corbyn Johnson got elected and, well, as they say, the rest is history.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:55
  #9558 (permalink)  
 
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There is one thing of which we can be absolutely certain, and that is that things will settle down and find their own level. Suppliers that just put up their prices because they are incurring higher costs will be undercut by suppliers that find ways to reduce those costs. Customers that are asked to pay higher prices will go in search of suppliers that can offer a better deal. It won't happen overnight, but just as has always happened with any big change in trade agreements, things will equalise at a point where suppliers and customers get a price they mutually accept.

Looking back at the time when the UK joined the EEC (as it was then), there was similar turmoil over prices, outrage at the increased price of pretty much all goods from places where the UK had commonwealth trade deals. Places like New Zealand and Australia felt that they had been stabbed in the back by the UK, for joining the EU and reneging on those commonwealth trade agreements. It hit the economies of some commonwealth countries pretty hard, but they adapted, sought out new trading partners and equilibrium returned. New Zealand, in particular, fought hard to get a new deal with the EEC, and pretty much succeeded, although they had a tough time of it for a while, and probably only managed to get the deal they did by playing on the debt some EEC states had to New Zealand for their contribution to the allied forces in WWII.

Supply and demand will always control the price of goods, and although there's loads of bluff and bluster about the upset that both Brexit, and in the main poor preparation for it on all sides, at the moment, entrepreneurs will take advantage of this and do as they always do, find ways to make money out of it. The UK is still a fairly big market, that imports lots of goods, so if former EU suppliers find they can no longer supply at a competitive price, then we can be absolutely certain that other suppliers will move in to fill the void.
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 13:57
  #9559 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
occasional - it would seem that your own personal views, on the motives of Brexit voters, are the basis of your argument and query. I would suggest that there were other, less thought-through, reasons. Your observations, on the relative prosperities of Ulster and Eire, will be modified in what respect, as a result of the agreement negotiated by the Buffoon's 'oven-ready deal' ?
I think I have figured out the problem: AO are yet to deliver this oven. Then things will get cooking!
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Old 5th Feb 2021, 14:01
  #9560 (permalink)  
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it is a fact that, presently, the French and Dutch customs are being deliberately bloody minded - I have read one report where the admitted as much saying the orders came from Paris.

Examples include refusing paperwork because it was in blue rather than black, then the next day refusing because it was in black rather than blue. One agent refusing a load because the paperwork was stamped individually on each page and that one stamp should be used on the pages spread like a fan - another that they had to be stamped individually, another that there were too many stamps.

Some of that can be explained by confusion and inexperience - but as I say they admitted it was deliberate.

They are getting away with it because the UK, with regards to UK imports, is operating a phased introduction with relaxed rules to allow everyone to learn to adjust.

(Since 1 January, there are only checks on controlled substances, such as alcohol and tobacco, standard goods are only subject to basic customs procedures. with firms having up to six months to complete customs declarations and pay tariffs. Phytosanitary paperwork will only be required to be pre-provided from 1st April. Physical checks of such products, and prompt payment of tariffs etc, will only be required from 1st July. )

How much longer that forbearance will last until the UK start operating the same policy and continental exporters start screaming and applying pressure on their governments to be sensible I do not know.
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