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BREXIT

Old 9th Aug 2019, 11:28
  #881 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NoelEvans View Post
I have tried to explain this one at least once before and I am sure that I will have to do so again.

Liberal politics is where the individual and the liberty of the individual is important. In economic terms it tends towards the liberty of the free market.

Left-wing politics tends towards socialism and communism, where the 'social entity' (society) or the commune are primary and the individual is subverted to being within that. Economic activity is constrained to within that perceived social entity or commune.

They are almost exact opposites. People who try to mix them as being in common are indicating their lack of understanding of basics in politics. (The USA being a prime example.)

The most liberal Prime Minister that Britain has had has probably been Thatcher with the promotion of the free market (as opposed to left-wing nationalisation) and the most liberal President that the USA has had has probably been Reagan with his desire to "get the government off the backs of the people".

However, the term "liberal" will continue to be abused by those who use it without understanding it.

Noel your understanding of liberalism is a little
off the mark as well. You are trying to associate it with right wing politics by conflating leftism with communism. Here you are wrong. Liberalism, communism and facism are the three spokes to that wheel.

Liberalism can in no way be associated with right wing if it can’t be associated with left wing politics either.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 11:30
  #882 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you Krystal, that explains why you are so dogged in your beliefs...
And why he spouts doggerel?
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 13:59
  #883 (permalink)  
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Disclaimer :.....the ONS telephone lines are permanently engaged hence the veracity of this report cannot be confirmed........not that it's good news. However, ORAC may well produce a graph ( actually, these are usually very interesting, seriously ) to negate this statement.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...it-uncertainty

Spoiler alert : ...Guardian article containing references to Corbyn which are not effusive and complimentary . Also contains references to playing mind gamed with the electorate .......and management generosity towards the staff......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-snap-election

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 9th Aug 2019 at 14:11.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 15:06
  #884 (permalink)  
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The GDP grew by 0.5% in the first quarter as companies stockpiled in expectation of Brexit. It fell in the second quarter as they used up those stocks without replenishing them. However it is true the world is sinking into recession, Germany has only narrowly missed entering recession. A full picture of the state of the UK economy will only become apparent at the end of the year.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 15:13
  #885 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The GDP grew by 0.5% in the first quarter as companies stockpiled in expectation of Brexit. It fell in the second quarter as they used up those stocks without replenishing them. However it is true the world is sinking into recession, Germany has only narrowly missed entering recession. A full picture of the state of the UK economy will only become apparent at the end of the year.
I'd guess the UK is on course for growth this year of somewhere around 0.6%; given that with any luck stockpiling has already started in Q3, although there isn't much spare warehousing space left by all accounts for "re-stockpiling", so Q3 could come in at less than 0.5%, and if Boris Johnson crashes the economy in Q4 with a no deal Brexit, the figures could be a whole lot worse than -0.2% of Q2, particularly if one of the (welcome) consequences were a curtailing of the obscene retail excesses of the Christmas bunfight.

We'll see where we are when the Q4 figures are published in the spring.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 05:57
  #886 (permalink)  
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Heaven forbid JB should be the source of a conspiracy theory.....but......no sooner does the Javid visit the National Grid, then, " pop", a couple of CB's trip and the UK gets hit by power cuts......this is pure conjecture by the way to save any angst

However the subject of lying Tory MP's was raised and evading questions .....here's the above demonstrating his finely honed skills in this respect, but note also the body language as the interview progresses .....notably his facial expression and eyes .

https://www.channel4.com/news/uk-eco...ting-recession

And, a fantastic new game show "Facts n Figures ! "......a joint Boris n Javid production.......still, that's one of the positives of austerity, all that surplus cash suddenly becoming conveniently available......but that's the Tory party for you, generous to a fault with the electorate and NHS in mind......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49292013

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 10th Aug 2019 at 09:09.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 10:09
  #887 (permalink)  
 
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It’s exactly thanks to austerity that money is now available. Which it wouldn’t be if Labour’s fingers had been anywhere near the till (“there is no money” -was a statement of fact not a joke!). Labour have pointedly refused to say how their massively higher spending will be funded. Laughably, Corbyn is touting himself as a leader of national unity. He doesn’t even command unity leadership of Labour Party (currently alternating between 3rd and 4th place). N.B. Germany’s growth figures almost identical to ours. Is that Brexit too?

Last edited by ShotOne; 10th Aug 2019 at 10:32.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 10:12
  #888 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
.still, that's one of the positives of austerity, all that surplus cash suddenly becoming conveniently available......
So the UK will be able to pay the €40bn it owes to the EU...;-)

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Old 10th Aug 2019, 10:44
  #889 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
So the UK will be able to pay the €40bn it owes to the EU...;-)
Boris will just get the printing press rolling...


.
Oh wait, those are pounds, not euros.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 12:11
  #890 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
However the subject of lying Tory MP's was raised and evading questions ....
Lying Tory MP's?
How about lying Labour MP's (from your favourite news source)
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...peeding-nissan

And as to evading questions, how about answering this one:
Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
So are you saying that you don't detest MP's from other political parties when they get caught lying?

You seem to think that it's only the Conservatives who won't answer questions:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rown-questions

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...gon-Tom-Watson

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...Daily-Politics

https://talkradio.co.uk/news/labour-...prime-minister

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit...r-eu-question/
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 12:26
  #891 (permalink)  
 
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Just catching up on Mr Farage's foray down-under.

Would someone please come down and take the pr...k home?
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 12:29
  #892 (permalink)  
 
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Papers reporting efforts to keep the Queen out of Brexit
Why?

Are the quitters afraid there here pan european ancestry and her husband -entirely foreign would make her biased?

She is very devoted to 'the Union ' which brexit puts at risk?

However , It demonstrates there is no point whatsoever in having a monarch as head of state when they cannot do anything-in theory Lizzie could just sack Boris or deny a request and his only recourse is to parliament . And that of course puts the monarchy at risk as they would clearly be of no use or value at all however dire a crisis we might end up in.

And on the subject of Boris where is al the money suddenly coming from , the magic money tree one assumes has born fruit . So we the UK tax payer will be funding all the 'at risk' business and absurd costs like fisheries protection vessels which we need but havent got as opposed to aircraft carriers and nuclear subs which we have got dont need and can't really use. Of course if we had stayed in the EU we could tax Google and the like fairly but Uncle Donald has said taxing them means no deal with USA , something of course he dare not say to the Eu.

Take back control eh?
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 12:33
  #893 (permalink)  
 
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Boris Johnson will do like Macron... he'll borrow the money he needs. After all, banks are lending him (Macron) at negative rates (for 10 years loans -0.326%!!!) Not only you do not pay interests, they pay you to borrow!!! Great news. Wonder if Trump and Brexit have anything to do with that?. Oh wait... apparently they do?.

Last edited by alicopter; 10th Aug 2019 at 12:46.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 13:37
  #894 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pax britanica View Post

“....Papers reporting efforts to keep the Queen out of Brexit
Why? ...”
Perhaps someone has discovered the Queen might actually support Brexit and involving her might not go their way?
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 13:40
  #895 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by alicopter View Post
Boris Johnson will do like Macron... he'll borrow the money he needs. After all, banks are lending him (Macron) at negative rates
Maybe staying in the EU and not talking of leaving the pub without paying for his beers is helping Macron in this respect ;-)
Would you lend BJ a £10 note at the moment ?

Last edited by Fly Aiprt; 10th Aug 2019 at 15:02.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 16:05
  #896 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post



Noel your understanding of liberalism is a little
off the mark as well. You are trying to associate it with right wing politics by conflating leftism with communism. Here you are wrong. Liberalism, communism and facism are the three spokes to that wheel.

Liberalism can in no way be associated with right wing if it can’t be associated with left wing politics either.
Where did I say that Liberalism is associated with the likes of fascism?
I did point out that two people that get 'tarred' as 'right wing' have pursued more Liberal policies than many others.
I agree that Liberalism fall between fascism and communism, but the left-wing ideas of the social collective or the commune subverting the individual are the opposite of the the Liberal idea of the liberty of the individual. So a 'liberal leftie' is a contradiction of terms. There are very grey boundaries in politics, but for true Liberals the individual can be subverted to neither an elite nor a collective. Free market economies and getting the government off the backs of the people are Liberal concepts, no matter how you might want to view the individuals involved!
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 16:32
  #897 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
Lying Tory MP's?
How about lying Labour MP's (from your favourite news source)
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...peeding-nissan

And as to evading questions, how about answering this one:



You seem to think that it's only the Conservatives who won't answer questions:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rown-questions

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11...gon-Tom-Watson

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...Daily-Politics

https://talkradio.co.uk/news/labour-...prime-minister

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/brexit...r-eu-question/
Well first, I didn't, but should have, realised that under a Ministry of Information ( sub section JB ) decree " No freethinking member of the public shall be critical of any member of the Conservative and Unionist party . Members of the public are encouraged to report such abuse. A sliding scale of rewards and national honours will be available for those public spirited citizens who accumulate the most points for their number of reports over the course of the year "

And then there's those links....the first is now an ex MP..she was hardly unique, and she won't be the last, and you seem to have blissfully ignored my complete lack of sympathy and support for her.

Any links that involve the Sun / Excess and Mail are never really going to be taken seriously, apart from the faithful readership, possibly not relevant in the case of the first , and the content of the first one was hilarious, or rather the source, a Mr Baker was. He must be unique in proposing the M.o.D ( universally criticised on here and in the real world ) provides "proper answers ".....

The Labour MP in the last one ?...true, she didn't directly answer the question, but, that doesn't make her a liar unlike, for example, Boris who happens to be ( temporarily) our PM and for whom being an established liar ( and there's been plenty of condemnation from those in his past to support this ) is all in a days work

" Just catching up on Mr Farage's foray down-under.

Would someone please come down and take the pr...k home
?

Less I be accused of wishing him harm, and I've suggested this before, as Australia is very large, and contains some of the most venomous species in the world, I feel it would be an excellent opportunity for Nige to commune with nature and explore his inner self in the tranquillity of, say, the Northern Territories for example.

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 10th Aug 2019 at 17:30.
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Old 10th Aug 2019, 17:04
  #898 (permalink)  
 
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In the meanwhile, the UK is still heading full throttle for the wall of 31st of October.

Maybe time to change perspectives ... or at least brace for impact ?

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Old 10th Aug 2019, 18:12
  #899 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
In the meanwhile, the UK is still heading full throttle for the wall of 31st of October.

Maybe time to change perspectives ... or at least brace for impact ?
AAIB Synopsis.

" The aircraft had been flying without a qualified crew and was making an approach to land. The FDR revealed full power had been selected, despite being below the fuel reserve minimum. Both the A/P and A/T were disconnected shortly after take-off. The aircraft performed a series of excessive pitch, roll and yaw movement during the flight with clear evidence of the aircraft controls being subjected to excessive right wing asymmetry. No power or control inputs were detected from the left wing.

The aircraft adopted an unusually nose high attitude prior to descending well below MSA in reduced visibility and weather consistent with embedded CB lines.

The CVR was barely audible but some transmissions in the later stages of he flight indicated CRM was being deliberately ignored with the nominal Captain at the controls.

The result was a CFIT shortly after 00.01 hrs on November 1st 2019. "

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Old 10th Aug 2019, 18:32
  #900 (permalink)  
 
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Krystal

Very clever , and amusing too, sadly all too fitting, I thought the CVR Captains mike might have contained a series of indistinct mumbles that could not be clearly deciphered although they appeared to be something like ' well er uff er waffle piffle simple -er no 'shortly before the aircraft hit the ground .

A few more thoughts on the Monarchs position which I 'wondered' about in an earleir post .

What would the army do if Johnson in Churchill early years mode ordered them onto the streets -would they obey him as their allegiance is to the crown not the PM ,

If the Queen is our head of state wouldnt a conspiracy to keep her in ignorance of what is plotted and what is actually happening constitute at the least misconduct in public office and at the worst high treason after all the monarch is subservient to parliament not to a pm with either no majority in the absolute sense or in the practical
sense.

And going back to humour it would be a delicious irony if the Queen stepped down or was no longer Monarch that her successor King Charles III could have the PM consigned to the Tower at the behest of parliament
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