Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

BREXIT

Old 19th Jan 2021, 06:53
  #8781 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
The fish may be happier. The fishermen arenít.

Brexit: Fishing firms hold London protest over disruption
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55706114
The irony around the fishing industry is that whatever deal the UK made, short of remaining under Single Market and Customs Union rules, the difficulties with exporting fish would have been the same.

They were warned, chose to dismiss those warnings as scaremongering and now have more than enough time to reflect on their stupidity in being lead by the nose by, particularly Gove, to vote leave. Just wait for the industry to do a screaming 180 about turn and lobby to negotiate closer ties with the EU.

The farming lobby won't be far behind.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 06:55
  #8782 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 5,985
Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
A benefit of the U.K leaving the EU? No waiting for the EU to approve vaccines, no waiting for our rationed meagre share, no waiting for the coordinated EU rollout, or are we just more organised?
FWIW the really p poor start in France has been for several reasons but v early on it was as much as anything to a legacy requirement for each patient to be seen a medic so that they could have the process/risks explained to them..

then in some /possibly all cases (certainly from reports from some of the EHPADS - "nursing homes") a several day cooling off/ contemplation period.....

...and only then a second appointment so that the jab could admitted..

So a multi day and time consuming process just for one jab.

All very carp indeed and fingers are now being pulled out, but the long process is nothing to do with the EU, it's a national issue and an example of how the EU is not as homogeneous as some people seem to think

Now that boots are being applied to backsides It'll be interesting to see how this works out over the next few months.
wiggy is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 07:02
  #8783 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Given the circumstances, and she does, strangely, have some detractors on here, it will be difficult for some on JB to resort to their favourite "champagne socialist " condemnation because the examples quoted, including some from the Telegraph and Tory MP's, are those which are well documented.....and with more to come.

Brexiters are waking up to the damage they've done | Brexit | The Guardian
The last line of that article is really telling 'A better Brexit deal really was possible'.

It was not however an option for the extreme Tory party we have today, where the ERG wouldn't accept any of the necessary trade offs that could have produced a pragmatic, less damaging Brexit.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 07:19
  #8784 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,771
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
The last line of that article is really telling 'A better Brexit deal really was possible'.

It was not however an option for the extreme Tory party we have today, where the ERG wouldn't accept any of the necessary trade offs that could have produced a pragmatic, less damaging Brexit.
Interesting point - most of the issues being raised in the article relate to our new status as a third country in relation to imports into the EU. I don't know how much of this could have been removed/simplified and still have been within WTO rules, and what the trade-off would have been.
SWBKCB is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 07:38
  #8785 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Interesting point - most of the issues being raised in the article relate to our new status as a third country in relation to imports into the EU. I don't know how much of this could have been removed/simplified and still have been within WTO rules, and what the trade-off would have been.
I suspect that is way above my pay grade. However, I can't see that the WTO would have become involved had, say, the UK government made a more comprehensive agreement (which I'm sure would have required the jurisdiction of the EU courts) to keep UK / EU food, agricultural and fishing standards and common health certificates in place. Had they done so that would have placated to vociferous groups (fishing and agriculture), but the ERG would have baulked against anything that kept any form of EU governance post-Brexit, and Labour, ever the opportunists, would have found reasons to oppose such an agreement. The UK could have gone further and could have negotiated much closer alignment with the customs union, but again that would have involved other trade offs.

We'll be back at the table within 5 years looking to strengthen ties, and once again, those terms "cake and eat it" will be popping up, as the UK tries to repair the damage to business and commerce (which is after all the engine room of the UK economy) without agreeing to any of the "nasty bits".

It all goes to show just how foolish the whole referendum exercise actually was.

ATNotts is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 09:21
  #8786 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 406
Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
I suspect that is way above my pay grade. However, I can't see that the WTO would have become involved had, say, the UK government made a more comprehensive agreement (which I'm sure would have required the jurisdiction of the EU courts) to keep UK / EU food, agricultural and fishing standards and common health certificates in place. Had they done so that would have placated to vociferous groups (fishing and agriculture), but the ERG would have baulked against anything that kept any form of EU governance post-Brexit, and Labour, ever the opportunists, would have found reasons to oppose such an agreement. The UK could have gone further and could have negotiated much closer alignment with the customs union, but again that would have involved other trade offs.

We'll be back at the table within 5 years looking to strengthen ties, and once again, those terms "cake and eat it" will be popping up, as the UK tries to repair the damage to business and commerce (which is after all the engine room of the UK economy) without agreeing to any of the "nasty bits".

It all goes to show just how foolish the whole referendum exercise actually was.
I'm sure you're right that we'll be back at the table in a few years, but we'll be there as supplicants dealing from a very weak position. Much like the position we will have negotiating trade deals with the US and every other stronger economy. Brexit has been the mistake that we feared.
Sallyann1234 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 10:09
  #8787 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Coasting South
Age: 66
Posts: 69
We still get jibes on JB about Dianne Abbot getting her figures wrong on live radio a few years ago. That's nothing compared to remainer David Camorons' huge miscalculation on the outcome of the referendum. Did he not heed the advice. Never start a battle unless you are absolutely sure of winning. All because the Tories were afraid of losing votes to UKIP.
Total madness to leave one of the three biggest economic blocs to go it alone. Are we really competitive enough?

Having suffered and prospered under both left and right I've been politically neutral. But this bunch of incompetents take some beating. Political dogma over the good of the country.
Sovereignty to the Tories means spaffing money to their donors and cronies and screw us. Another four years of this mob. Gawd help us.
hiflymk3 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 10:37
  #8788 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by hiflymk3 View Post
We still get jibes on JB about Dianne Abbot getting her figures wrong on live radio a few years ago. That's nothing compared to remainer David Camorons' huge miscalculation on the outcome of the referendum. Did he not heed the advice. Never start a battle unless you are absolutely sure of winning. All because the Tories were afraid of losing votes to UKIP.
Total madness to leave one of the three biggest economic blocs to go it alone. Are we really competitive enough?

Having suffered and prospered under both left and right I've been politically neutral. But this bunch of incompetents take some beating. Political dogma over the good of the country.
Sovereignty to the Tories means spaffing money to their donors and cronies and screw us. Another four years of this mob. Gawd help us.
I'm sure your first question is rhetorical, but the answer if you really weren't sure is no!

As for this mob, they're worse than incompetent, they've been dogmatic rather than pragmatic with Brexit, and I feel reasonably confident that they will pay the same price as Donald Trump in the next general election, although to take over and sort the mess out, and start undoing some of the stupidity of the last few years, but more especially the last 12 or so months, Labour will have to make some sort of agreement with the Scottish Nationalists who would drive a hard bargain, that is if they haven't already had IndRef2, won it and be in transition out of the UK, in which cases there is the distinct danger that the UK could be saddled with the extreme right for a while.
ATNotts is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 11:39
  #8789 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
Age: 60
Posts: 862
hiflymk3
I think the quote is "never fight a battle, if you gain nothing by winning" attributed to Erwin Rommel. There is a framed copy of the statement in our offices to encourage people to pursue dialogue rather than a adversarial approach to clients and indeed final accounts. Seems to work well in our experience, its a pity Cameron did not read it and realise it.

ATN
I am afraid you maybe right with your view re right wing, given the SNP hold on Scotland which maybe separated, or in the process of becoming so by then. Given current performance of this govt, and the fact that they have few years before they have to go to the country I am sure there will be more screw ups to come, which combined with a partial break up of the UK on his watch, may colour the electorates view of the current PM if indeed he is still the PM at that stage, which is not guaranteed.

Cheers
Mr Mac
Mr Mac is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 11:46
  #8790 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Locked Down but not Out
Posts: 3
hiflymk3
I think the quote is "never fight a battle, if you gain nothing by winning"
How about if you lose something by not fighting?, the remoaners were so cock-sure they could win by doing nothing ..............look where that got em
and now all they do is whinge about the result, its quite pathetic
PR0PWASH is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 11:47
  #8791 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 192
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Given the circumstances, and she does, strangely, have some detractors on here, it will be difficult for some on JB to resort to their favourite "champagne socialist " condemnation because the examples quoted, including some from the Telegraph and Tory MP's, are those which are well documented.....and with more to come.

Brexiters are waking up to the damage they've done | Brexit | The Guardian
The lovely Ms Toynbee, she has been my favourite champagne socialist since 25th October 1997 when she said in the Radio Times....

Most people want to do their job well. What drives them crazy is the petty lunacies that make it twice as hard
I suffered another 20 years of petty lunacy, before one of the lunatics put me out of my misery permanently



WB627 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 12:18
  #8792 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Coasting South
Age: 66
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by PR0PWASH View Post
How about if you lose something by not fighting?, the remoaners were so cock-sure they could win by doing nothing ..............look where that got em
and now all they do is whinge about the result, its quite pathetic
Well Camoron didn't fight his corner well did he. Boris saw an opportunity and got lucky.
hiflymk3 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 12:33
  #8793 (permalink)  
pug
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: A post-punk postcard fair
Posts: 960
Originally Posted by PR0PWASH View Post
How about if you lose something by not fighting?, the remoaners were so cock-sure they could win by doing nothing ..............look where that got em
and now all they do is whinge about the result, its quite pathetic
Not sure who you are referring to with ref. remoaners, the Gvt. at the time or the electorate? The sad fact is that there was a deep seated belief in Government that remain would win the referendum and it was to be a confirmatory result. All it highlighted was the lack of awareness of public opinion outside of the political (and to some extent the M25) bubble. That explains the malaise in the remain argument. I donít believe you can level the Ďpathetic whingerí accusation to the typical remain voter, after all they are the only group who clearly knew what they were voting for. Itís quite perplexing to still be reading/hearing this rhetoric from the supposed victors.

Anyone who has spent their time listening to local talk radio stations over the last 20 years would know that there has always been a deep seated mistrust of the EU, which has at best provided a convenient scape goat of successive Governments. However, I suspect had this gone to vote back in 2010 (before austerity) the result may have been somewhat different.
pug is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 12:54
  #8794 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 2,126
Originally Posted by PR0PWASH View Post
How about if you lose something by not fighting?, the remoaners were so cock-sure they could win by doing nothing ..............look where that got em
and now all they do is whinge about the result, its quite pathetic
As a leaver, which I am assuming you are, how do you see things now that the UK is finally outside and has taken back control of it's borders, it's laws and it's money (leaving aside the fact that there was never a time when we didn't have control of those things)? Is it going well for you, or are there seeds of doubt as to the wisdom of the placing of your cross in the "leave" box back in 2016?
ATNotts is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 13:40
  #8795 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 192
Ah Cameron! Has anyone considered nominating him for the Darwin award? Or even the whole of the UK for that matter

WB627 is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 14:43
  #8796 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 68
Posts: 58
I think what happened was that Remain was so much a No Brainer that nobody considered the possibility that enough people would be foolish enough to vote for something that offered absolutely nothing and did major harm to the economy. The problem was a few crafty people managed to exploit the dopes for their own advantage. Everyone who voted leave had different ideas of what it would deliver for them. Case in point the fisherfolk who are now so very upset.
Effluent Man is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 14:49
  #8797 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Just south of the Keevil gap.
Posts: 308
EM, that was certainly a major part of it, together with the blatant lies which are now becoming apparent. The assurances to the farming community that EU subsidies would be replaced by Government funding is just one example.

Last edited by Cpt_Pugwash; 19th Jan 2021 at 14:49. Reason: mis-spelling
Cpt_Pugwash is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 14:53
  #8798 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 5,771
Originally Posted by Cpt_Pugwash View Post
EM, that was certainly a major part of it, together with the blatant lies which are now becoming apparent. The assurances to the farming community that EU subsidies would be replaced by Government funding is just one example.
Are you saying it isn't? I thought the same amount was being spent just aimed at more environmental outcomes?

SWBKCB is online now  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 14:56
  #8799 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: No longer in Jurassic Park eating Toblerone....
Posts: 2,661
Cpt_Pugwash; The Path to Sustainable Farming 2021-2024 looks like a good start to me.

SWBKCB; the Basic Payment scheme for 2021 is the same as for 2020. The plan is, apparently, to reduce the amount of the blanket payment over time and increase the targeted payments
LowNSlow is offline  
Old 19th Jan 2021, 15:47
  #8800 (permalink)  
Thought police antagonist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 82
This will come as sweet music to those on here whose idea of "management " is basically to tell people what to do.....or else. Also those who feel workers rights are of no real consequence and they should be grateful simply for having a job!!......and that's before the damned unions get a mention.

When this was mentioned on here, and yep, I did, it was duly ridiculed as being not mentioned, as such, in the "negotiations " and much emphasis was placed on the Tory party having given its word.....again, I mentioned when the word "review " gets included, then that's always a euphemism for change or remove.

And lo and behold, and this didn't take long to emerge, look what's happening....fancy Boris not mentioning this when he "got Brexit done !" .....also, almost, amusing to read about Raab as being a "rising star ".....what happened there I wonder ?.....but far more serious is the group he's associated with.....hence yet another exemplifier of the ( non ) Tory party and their true ideology.

Business secretary confirms post-Brexit review of UK workers' rights | Brexit | The Guardian
Krystal n chips is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.