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BREXIT

Old 31st Dec 2020, 16:51
  #8341 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe this thread should be renamed " Brexit Fallout"
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 17:02
  #8342 (permalink)  
 
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96% of Gibraltarians voted remain. They appear to have got their wish.

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Old 31st Dec 2020, 17:41
  #8343 (permalink)  
 
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Gibraltar is currently undergoing a rising wave of Covid-19 - some of them blame the lack of testing of arrivals from the UK.
I think their own actions have had something to do with it as well, having witnessed (via webcam) the six-lane queue of cars around the frontier loop yesterday morning. Some people were interviewed by Gibraltar Radio and gave pathetic reasons along the lines of: a) we've been isolating and need to get out! b) I need some exercise. c) we've booked for New Year and want to have a break! Much the same excuses we hear in the UK.

Apparently, there is now an agreement where Gibraltar has effectively been given Schengen status and the border will be controlled by Frontex - whoever that is. This new status will mean free access between Spain and Gibraltar for all Schengen travellers but British nationals will have to undergo passport checks both at the airport and the frontier (no significant change then).
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 17:49
  #8344 (permalink)  
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1. You'll find the art of a good discussion is to be made aware of other viewpoints, as well as your own. ORAC does a good job in providing other viewpoints, not necessarily her own. You don't have to agree with the other posters, but Clausewitz and Sun Tzu were big fans of understanding the other side of the argument before wading in.

2. With over 1200 pages of ill-defined thoughts and intentions still to be ratified, clarified and defined, you know Brexit is far from over. This might need a couple of spin off threads after arguing interminably with the EU over the next 20 years of being taken to the mat on the VAT on a sprat.

3. When the Daily Mail announces "Boris does Brexit - it's over" you should be investing heavily in Civil Service sub-committee futures.
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 18:17
  #8345 (permalink)  
 
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Ynys Mon My wife's mother was born there, I'm sure we could claim nationality when they re-join the EU

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Old 31st Dec 2020, 18:17
  #8346 (permalink)  
 
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You Gov 20/12/20 In retrospect was the UK right or wrong to leave the EU? Right 38% Wrong 48% don't give a monkey's 14%
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 21:52
  #8347 (permalink)  
 
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Oh dear,
How could they do this to the faithful?
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...it-economic-uk
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 21:59
  #8348 (permalink)  
 
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WE'RE OUT!!!!
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 22:00
  #8349 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 22:12
  #8350 (permalink)  
 
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I've spent most of my life waiting for this moment, and am sat here quietly rejoicing, with a rather nice bottle of (Chilean) wine.

Hopefully we can put all the venom expressed by the remainers behind us now, and get on with more important things, like beating this damned plague, and making fair trade agreements with countries around the world (not to mention trying to correct the harm caused to Commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand back when we royally shafted them back when we joined the EEC).
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 22:25
  #8351 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
I've spent most of my life waiting for this moment, and am sat here quietly rejoicing, with a rather nice bottle of (Chilean) wine.

Hopefully we can put all the venom expressed by the remainers behind us now, and get on with more important things, like beating this damned plague, and making fair trade agreements with countries around the world (not to mention trying to correct the harm caused to Commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand back when we royally shafted them back when we joined the EEC).
Keep on dreaming, sweet child.
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 22:26
  #8352 (permalink)  
 
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So, with the introduction of Frontex providing border checks at the Gib airport and land border, what happens when one of HM's ships rocks up at HM Naval Base Gibraltar? Does Gibraltar remain a British Overseas Territory or has it surreptitiously become Spanish?
It's a funny old world. Recently we had condemnation (quite rightly) of the government for threatening to ignore treaties such as the Good Friday agreement. Spain has for decades been trying to abrogate the Treaty of Utrecht and everyone applauds them for it!
We constantly hear politicians trumpeting the "will of the people". The people of Gibraltar have made it known, more than once, that they want to remain British. Boris hands them over to Spain/EU and there is not a peep of indignation.
When Argentina invaded the Falklands, a lot was said of the Falklands being British Overseas Territory and must be defended. Gibraltar has the same status but not a word about their fate.
It's a funny old world!
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 22:45
  #8353 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
I've spent most of my life waiting for this moment, and am sat here quietly rejoicing, with a rather nice bottle of (Chilean) wine.

Hopefully we can put all the venom expressed by the remainers behind us now, and get on with more important things, like beating this damned plague, and making fair trade agreements with countries around the world (not to mention trying to correct the harm caused to Commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand back when we royally shafted them back when we joined the EEC).
We agree on many things, but at 23.00 I was drowning my sorrows whilst watching the New Year fireworks from The Brandenburg Gate on ZDF to the sound track of Beethoven's Ode to Joy.

A really sombre moment for the UK, one the young people this country will hold our generation responsible for for years to come.

Whatever, happy new year, it would be difficult for it to be worse than 2020!
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Old 31st Dec 2020, 23:48
  #8354 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
So, with the introduction of Frontex providing border checks at the Gib airport and land border, what happens when one of HM's ships rocks up at HM Naval Base Gibraltar? Does Gibraltar remain a British Overseas Territory or has it surreptitiously become Spanish?
It's a funny old world. Recently we had condemnation (quite rightly) of the government for threatening to ignore treaties such as the Good Friday agreement. Spain has for decades been trying to abrogate the Treaty of Utrecht and everyone applauds them for it!
We constantly hear politicians trumpeting the "will of the people". The people of Gibraltar have made it known, more than once, that they want to remain British. Boris hands them over to Spain/EU and there is not a peep of indignation.
When Argentina invaded the Falklands, a lot was said of the Falklands being British Overseas Territory and must be defended. Gibraltar has the same status but not a word about their fate.
It's a funny old world!
Well, while Gibraltar voted to remain british, albeit "just" an overseas territory and not legally part of the UK, they also voted 96% to remain in the EU. I guess the UK government granted them their wish in a way by putting them into the Schengen territory, which means Gibraltars external border is the external border of the EU and therefore EU border guards have to check entry documents according to EU procedures. Of course, Gibraltar will not be part of the customs union or the internal market, therefore border controls remain in effect for any goods (and services) transported over the border between Gibraltar and Spain, same as between Switzerland and the EU, or Norway and the EU.

Judging from polls the average tory voter does not give a flying f*ck about anything but england. Scotland leaving the union? Who cares. Same for NI or Wales. And nobody even thinks about Gibraltar much.

I just hope those Frontex border guards do not use their usual modus operandus of beating and shooting anyone trying to pass the border, or capsizing their boats and ships. That would be a tad over the top.
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Old 1st Jan 2021, 05:23
  #8355 (permalink)  
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ORAC,
It was inevitable that one of the 20th centuries most iconic personalities and speeches would be abused when used to "celebrate " the UK's departure given the ethos of the speech was unity,

Along with those across the UK who doubtless drank themselves into a stupor last night, there will be others who also enjoyed an extended bout of priapism . Both tend to have after effects,

BBC News last night had a, thankfully, short clip of I D-S ( famed for infant school hand pumping and inflicting misery on millions c / o the DWP ) who said he wished he was 21 again with all the opportunities suddenly becoming available, as of today, but then came his revelation as to how deranged he is when he said something about "Britain dominating the world ".......that comment says it all really.

Boris gets a mention here, and the views expressed suggest a far deeper understanding of reality than is ever likely to emerge from Boris et al.

View from the EU: Britain 'taken over by gamblers, liars, clowns and their cheerleaders' | Brexit | The Guardian

The Guardian view of Brexit: a tragic national error | Brexit | The Guardian

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 1st Jan 2021 at 05:44.
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Old 1st Jan 2021, 05:48
  #8356 (permalink)  
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Have you ever added any value to the economy of the United Kingdom? Worked for a company that has paid into the Exchequer of the United Kingdom and not drained it? A question that is a straight yes or no answer. If yes, I would give benefit.
Yes, systems engineer working for a multinational including 8 years living and working variously in Abu Dhabi, Paris, Madrid and Los Angeles. (Paid and taxed in UK )
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Old 1st Jan 2021, 07:21
  #8357 (permalink)  
 
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he wished he was 21 again with all the opportunities suddenly becoming available,
I think we are all curious as to what these will be....
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Old 1st Jan 2021, 07:30
  #8358 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
I've spent most of my life waiting for this moment, and am sat here quietly rejoicing, with a rather nice bottle of (Chilean) wine.

Hopefully we can put all the venom expressed by the remainers behind us now, and get on with more important things, like beating this damned plague, and making fair trade agreements with countries around the world (not to mention trying to correct the harm caused to Commonwealth countries like Australia and New Zealand back when we royally shafted them back when we joined the EEC).
Good luck with the venom bit. Personally I'm feeling a double dose, shared between Tubs de Pfeffel and the leavers.
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Old 1st Jan 2021, 07:38
  #8359 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Non Linear Gear View Post
Have you ever added any value to the economy of the United Kingdom? Worked for a company that has paid into the Exchequer of the United Kingdom and not drained it? A question that is a straight yes or no answer. If yes, I would give benefit. If a full military / government one the answer is not yes. So many military people have screwed the UK. Taking current affairs from non dom owned newspapers is the best way to view the world. How blinkered. You and others have destroyed my work qualifications to work anywhere else, by your nasty party you voted in. You cannot say sorry because you are not capable.
​​​​​​
NLG: Your post is pretty much offensive; probably not only to ORAC but others too.
First, you ask if ORAC has worked for a company that has contributed to the Exchequer. ORAC, as far as I can see is not a company so your question was either not aimed at ORAC or was clumsily put together. Not so long ago, I was working in Saudi Arabia and lived on a camp populated mainly by BAE personnel. The BAE personnel were not paying UK taxes but the company was. Is this an example of what you were referring to? In my case, I was working for a Saudi company so neither I nor the company were paying into the Exchequer of the UK. However, I had paid tax & N.I. right up to retirement at 65, regardless of where I was working. The one exception to this was during my 4 years in Germany and the question of UK tax/N.I. didn't come into it due to the reciprocal agreements between the UK & Germany, via the EU.

So you think military service is some sort of abuse of the system? "Military people have screwed the UK"? I take it you haven't served in the armed forces? Let me enlighten you; the general feeling among a lot of the Forces is that the UK has screwed them, not the other way round.

And ORAC didn't destroy your work qualifications, nor those of anybody else. If you have real professional qualifications, nothing will change that. If it is mutual recognition of qualifications between the UK and EU that bothers you, perhaps you should look at yourself. There are avenues you can take to have your qualifications recognised. Note: They may need to be recognised by individual nations within the EU, not the EU itself. If your qualifications include the ability to use Google or Duckduckgo, then you can research this quite quickly. Although it could be argued that you have had 4 years to do this, it is never too late.

I am not writing this on behalf of ORAC, ORAC is quite capable of taking care of herself. I am also not writing this because I agree with ORAC's politics; we are on opposite sides of the political divide and, unless ORAC experiences a Damascene Moment, will always be. But there was no need for your vitriolic post and I think you should apologise to ORAC.
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Old 1st Jan 2021, 08:04
  #8360 (permalink)  
 
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Our Northern correspondent has fun posting his denigratory, grauniad links.
I think that every time he does, I'll post this.
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...it-economic-uk
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