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BREXIT

Old 29th Jul 2019, 13:53
  #681 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
That's why I said at the start of the paragraph "It won't happen". Johnson and his ERG friends could easily make the decision, go to Brussels telling them that's their decision (terminate any further talks and go for a referendum), they get the necessary extension, almost certainly win the vote in the Commons and off we go. They just ain't about to do it because democracy ended on 24th June 2016.
I don't know how many times it has been said, but a 2nd Ref won't achieve anything. Already the leaders of the greens and LibDems have stated they won't respect the result, if it is to leave.
Labour haven't quite worked out their best option. Risk losing large swathes of constituencies, and just being a party of the metropolitan areas. Or sticking to their core voters.
Having another referendum will lead to the obvious accusations of not respecting results until it goes the way they want it to.
In the event of a remain vote, do we have another in 3 years years to see if public opinion has changed again.
So once the Ref was held, there was only 2 choices. Leave or stay.
That is a now a political choice, except the clock is now against remain.

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Old 29th Jul 2019, 14:26
  #682 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip
So once the Ref was held, there was only 2 choices. Leave or stay.
That is a now a political choice, except the clock is now against remain.
The reality of course is that the remoaniacs have done, said, demonstrated nothing that would have changed anyone's mind from "leave" in the last 3 years. Whining about losing and crying that it was "only advisory" when a) the stupidly expensive pamphlet every UK home got said it would be implemented; and b) a law was passed in parliament to make the result binding has done nothing to change any minds at all.

The remain argument lost an unlosable referendum and now it's time to get on with implementing the result: Leave

Thankfully now we have a team in #10 and #11 who aren't just bitter losers.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 14:59
  #683 (permalink)  
 
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Over three years ago, David Cameron made it quite clear that a vote to leave the EU in the Referendum meant leaving the EU without any conditions, "Out means out!" The British public voted accordingly.

The first mention of leaving with a deal came with the appointment of Theresa May as Prime Minister. Given that she had backed remaining within the EU it came as little surprise that a deal was arranged that ensured the UK would leave the EU while still remaining attached for an indefinite period due to the Northern Ireland backstop arrangements.

Full permission to leave the EU without any deal was granted and expected during the Referendum and that is what the public expected to happen. Just because you can't believe a politician's promises doesn't mean that they shouldn't be forced to deliver!

The decision was taken over three years ago now and if government and businesses haven't been able to prepare for leaving after all that time, too bad. They will just have to wing it when it happens, in the traditional British way of making do. Roll on the 31st of October.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 15:29
  #684 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know how many times it has been said, but a 2nd Ref won't achieve anything. Already the leaders of the greens and LibDems have stated they won't respect the result, if it is to leave.
FAKE NEWS! Jo Swinson said on the Sophie Ridge programme yesterday that the LibDems would accept the result of a referendum, even though she herself would continue to hold the opinion that we're better off in the EU. Don't know about the present position of the Greens leaders, but I would imagine they'd sign up in roughly the same terms. Anyway, as I have already said today twice, it ain't going to happen.

Frankly, as regards the rest of your missive, I'd remind you that the leave position was the leaving the EU would be the easiest negotiation in history, there was never the suggestion of leaving with no deal being a serious potential outcome. The Backstop is a requirement for free trade (movement of goods) across the NI border, as I have said on innumerable times it is an EU external border that must be controlled, for goods at least, no ifs, no buts so if Johnson really wants to keep the border open then he has to sign up, otherwise there will likely be trouble, and in short order the loss of NI from the UK (no great loss for me personally) but as the start of the unravelling of the UK as we know it pretty drastic.

The capacity of hard Brexiteers to treat leaving the EU in such a blase manner is breathtaking.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 17:15
  #685 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
FAKE NEWS! Jo Swinson said on the Sophie Ridge programme yesterday that the LibDems would accept the result of a referendum, even though she herself would continue to hold the opinion that we're better off in the EU. Don't know about the present position of the Greens leaders, but I would imagine they'd sign up in roughly the same terms. Anyway, as I have already said today twice, it ain't going to happen.

Frankly, as regards the rest of your missive, I'd remind you that the leave position was the leaving the EU would be the easiest negotiation in history, there was never the suggestion of leaving with no deal being a serious potential outcome. The Backstop is a requirement for free trade (movement of goods) across the NI border, as I have said on innumerable times it is an EU external border that must be controlled, for goods at least, no ifs, no buts so if Johnson really wants to keep the border open then he has to sign up, otherwise there will likely be trouble, and in short order the loss of NI from the UK (no great loss for me personally) but as the start of the unravelling of the UK as we know it pretty drastic.

The capacity of hard Brexiteers to treat leaving the EU in such a blase manner is breathtaking.
Not fake news. Do some research of her speaking on the BBC. If she has changed her tack since the interview on the BBC, I wouldn't be surprised. She might well have been advised it was not the best thing to say if she wanted another referendum.

Your opinion re my missive is irrelevant, same as you. It has been stated many times about what was said by both sides at the referendum. Despite all your continuing postings denying what was or wasn't meant by Brexit, the voting paper had a simple question.

I am sure the Gov't are listening to you in regards to the Border. You would be better off stating it is your opinion rather than making it out that you know the facts.
You seem to be spending so much of your time getting angry with Brexit.




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Old 29th Jul 2019, 17:24
  #686 (permalink)  
 
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Try getting a trade deal through Congress if the the Irish Government kick up about the Backstop......................
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 17:46
  #687 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Agreed, but we've been told ever since the referendum that 'Brexit means Brexit' regardless of any deal or not.
Any company with a responsibility to its shareholders will have been planning accordingly over those three years.
I think you are being unrealistic to think that businesses have been planning for three years. Planning at negligible cost possibly but I suspect many avoided expense until it was apparent that we might crash and burn, probably last August.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 18:09
  #688 (permalink)  
 
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Again ... PLEASE SOMEBODY!!! Nobody in the UK - either political parties nor groups with involvement in the Brexit situation - has mentioned what will/might/could possibly happen to British citizens in the EU after Brexit. There have been assurances from the UK politicos that EU citizens in the UK will be 'looked after'. And of course nothing said by any of the EU policos either.

OK so my question is a bit 'woolly' but it would be lovely to have some reciprocal comment now there is a new head on the bloc(k).
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 18:10
  #689 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
I think you are being unrealistic to think that businesses have been planning for three years. Planning at negligible cost possibly but I suspect many avoided expense until it was apparent that we might crash and burn, probably last August.
More fool them then. They’ve had 3 years to learn how to be Boy Scouts (if we are allowed to say that any more!)
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 18:16
  #690 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MOSTAFA View Post
More fool them then. They’ve had 3 years to learn how to be Boy Scouts (if we are allowed to say that any more!)
Even bigger fools if they did not bother to plan ahead because they thought May and the rest would manage to avoid leaving, not very astute business people who rely on assumption and hope.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 18:42
  #691 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alsacienne View Post
Again ... PLEASE SOMEBODY!!! Nobody in the UK - either political parties nor groups with involvement in the Brexit situation - has mentioned what will/might/could possibly happen to British citizens in the EU after Brexit. There have been assurances from the UK politicos that EU citizens in the UK will be 'looked after'. And of course nothing said by any of the EU policos either.
It'll be down to how generous the "local" politicians feel come Brexit and I guess that in turn depends on the rhetoric coming out of Westminster in the next few months..

In our case we've done as much as possible to ring fence ourselves against this mess by e.g. reducing our exposure as much as we can to Sterling, those in the family that can easily do so have exercised change of nationality/change of citizenship options, the others in the family have made sure the have as much documentation that proves residency, etc.

Whilst some politicians and I suspect some here have regarded the last 3 years as a bit of a jolly jape some of us know it isn't, it has already had real world consequences..
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 19:29
  #692 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
It'll be down to how generous the "local" politicians feel come Brexit and I guess that in turn depends on the rhetoric coming out of Westminster in the next few months..

In our case we've done as much as possible to ring fence ourselves against this mess by e.g. reducing our exposure as much as we can to Sterling, those in the family that can easily do so have exercised change of nationality/change of citizenship options, the others in the family have made sure the have as much documentation that proves residency, etc.

Whilst some politicians and I suspect some here have regarded the last 3 years as a bit of a jolly jape some of us know it isn't, it has already had real world consequences..

I am truly sorry but but that doesn’t effect a single word I said a few posts back.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 19:51
  #693 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MOSTAFA View Post
I am truly sorry but but that doesn’t effect a single word I said a few posts back.
Errr...excellent...brilliant - I'm really pleased for you.

My comment wasn't intended to address your post..it was made with regard to Alsascienne's question regarding what I suspect are "domestic" issues for many, such as to take one example healthcare post Brexit, where there are still significant unknown unknowns which have been absolutely impossible to comprehensively plan for, rather than issues involving business or Boy Scouts.

Last edited by wiggy; 29th Jul 2019 at 20:04.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 20:07
  #694 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Alsacienne View Post
Again ... PLEASE SOMEBODY!!! Nobody in the UK - either political parties nor groups with involvement in the Brexit situation - has mentioned what will/might/could possibly happen to British citizens in the EU after Brexit. There have been assurances from the UK politicos that EU citizens in the UK will be 'looked after'. And of course nothing said by any of the EU policos either.

OK so my question is a bit 'woolly' but it would be lovely to have some reciprocal comment now there is a new head on the bloc(k).
that’s up to the EU. The UK had made its position clear regardless of what the EU does.
‘Unfortunately if you choose to live in a certain country you have to abide by its rules
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 20:29
  #695 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SARF View Post
The UK had made its position clear regardless of what the EU does.

You are right, the position was made very clear as soon as three days after the Referendum result...

In a Telegraph column published three days after the referendum result, Johnson said: “[We] who agreed with this majority verdict must accept that it was not entirely overwhelming.”

He sought to reassure remain voters that the UK would still have access to the single market: “EU citizens living in this country will have their rights fully protected, and the same goes for British citizens living in the EU
Since then of course this has morphed through the mentality of "citizens of nowhere", although at least with the Withdrawal Agreement expats would have got some continuation of certain rights, through to now, where "no deal" is very much on the cards.

MOSTAFA has a point in a way, yes, people/businesses have had three years to prepare for something called Brexit, but exactly what it was they needed to prepare for has changed everyday...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...no-deal-brexit








Last edited by wiggy; 29th Jul 2019 at 20:41.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 20:37
  #696 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Wiggy! Sorry to have to involve you again! Had an unexpected whistle-stop trip to the UK that became an overnighter, and was a bit shocked by the reaction of certain individuals I had to work with at an unnamed UK airport and various other passengers waiting in the terminal. Yes, I've taken the same precautions as you ... but it still hurts seeing childish behaviour in Strasbourg and in the UK with nothing but hot air and hate stirring. Just makes life unnecessarily stressful because we should all be trying to live together (no NOT THAT!!!). And still nobody has mentioned strategic alliances when the world faces problems of encroaching dictatorship from variedgeographic locations.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 20:42
  #697 (permalink)  
 
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‘Unfortunately if you choose to live in a certain country you have to abide by its rules
OK SARF I understand where you're coming from ...

I live outside the UK by reasons of employment, and am delighted to abide by the rules of my country of residence. I have been welcomed into and feel part of my local community and they won't be sending me to Coventry or turning their backs on me when or if Brexit comes. However, my country of birth, which is the same as my nationality, has done nothing to assure me of my status except disenfranchise me from any UK electoral process and the actual Brexit referendum back in 2016. That doesn't sound like 'being kind to one's national family' does it? Of course rules are rules, laws are laws, and God forbid common sense and human decency will even get a look in.
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Old 29th Jul 2019, 21:19
  #698 (permalink)  
 
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The EU27 have said as well that the British in the EU will be looked after.

Serious question: Will GB be the first country to impose financial sanctions on itself?

As someone from the continent i find the whole brexit truly intriguing. As the UK seems so incredibly divided I don’t think a second referendum is the answer.

It has taken long enough. The EU will not renegotiate so just get out on Oct31st. Just get on with it and have another referendum in 3 years time whether or not to rejoin. Time will tell and all the best of luck.

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Old 30th Jul 2019, 01:09
  #699 (permalink)  
 
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Yep.....Get out with a really HARD brexit. Collapse the pound.That way my dollars earned in China......
2007....1GBP/2.07USD
2019....1GBP/1.22USD
2030....1GBP/0.60USD????

Great for expats who plan to retire in the UK....Keep up the self destruction
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Old 30th Jul 2019, 01:22
  #700 (permalink)  
 
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fixed the spelling mistake

Originally Posted by kungfu panda View Post

Great for exports...…


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