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BREXIT

Old 19th Oct 2020, 12:25
  #6261 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
pr00ne

it certainly wasn't me that said that!!!!
No, it doesn‘t fit with the views you have expressed at all. Wonder why pr00ne attributed it to you.

Another R4 programme which has offered 3D postcards into various random parts of the UK has been The Patch, going somewhere based on random postcard generation and looking at the issues which concern local people. This programme also happened upon Polish shop ownership in one episode and more than once the pressure and tensions which poor communities are under in terms of migration, housing, identity, crime and a general sense of poor regulatory oversight and instability. And of course, these elements are one of the two big drivers of Brexit. Neglected Britain in an age when everything is supposed to right itself organically. It doesn‘t. The wastage is not only shocking, it is tragic.

And as part of this, I think the reaction to speaking another language in your local supermarket may depend on where it is. Much of London? No issue. But In plenty of places, it is immediately a trigger to some level of xenophobia and sense of threat at change from a Britain people remember and perhaps even romanticise, compared with one which is simply not shared.

One thing that is completely insufferable is when Johnson and Co start appealing to this idea of shared identity based on historic self-images, which are in themselves rarified and not future fit.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 12:51
  #6262 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
And as part of this, I think the reaction to speaking another language in your local supermarket may depend on where it is. Much of London? No issue. But In plenty of places, it is immediately a trigger to some level of xenophobia and sense of threat at change from a Britain people remember and perhaps even romanticise, compared with one which is simply not shared.
Try speaking English in a pub in Anglesey and see the reaction!
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 13:34
  #6263 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Try speaking English in a pub in Anglesey and see the reaction!
To be fair, whilst this was once the case, and certainly in the deep heart in the middle, ( in a census taken in the early 70's it was found about 25 % or near enough, had never actually left the island and for those who had, Bangor was the edge of the known world ) along with Holyhead / Llangefni then you would be correct....times change, as does the demographic hence not the case nowadays.

Had you said Carnarfon however, ( choose your own version of how it's spelt as there's a choice of three ) or anywhere from there down to Aberystwyth then yep, you will still encounter this attitude............ at times
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 15:02
  #6264 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
Had you said Carnarfon however, ( choose your own version of how it's spelt as there's a choice of three ) or anywhere from there down to Aberystwyth then yep, ...
I think you just chose the fourth.

However, as an Englishman cannot open his mouth without causing someone to despise him, I don't think you need to bring the Welsh into this.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 18:37
  #6265 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Try speaking English in a pub in Anglesey and see the reaction!
Try speaking English ANYWHERE in Anglesey and see the reaction

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Old 19th Oct 2020, 20:26
  #6266 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WB627 View Post
Try speaking English ANYWHERE in Anglesey and see the reaction
The reaction will be a response. In English. Well it always has been for me.

CG
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 21:13
  #6267 (permalink)  
 
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....... or Mockney. It's a generally-accepted phenomenon that for a Brit abroad to cope with not understanding the local lingo is to talk louder.
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 22:42
  #6268 (permalink)  
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You have to wonder how much of this is a "Son et ~Lumiere" to allow a deal to be signed in November with both sides claiming to have achieved their aims....

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...alks-dtwf7kgv8

Brexit impasse broken as EU agrees to open talks

The UK and the EU took a significant step towards resuming formal Brexit talks today after Brussels made a key concession by agreeing to “intense” discussions on legal texts.

Michel Barnier told his counterpart Lord Frost in a phone call that the EU was willing to “intensify talks in London this week, on all subjects, and based on legal texts”. He tweeted that Brussels was now awaiting the UK’s reaction.

Brussels’s refusal to engage on legal texts had been one of the two main sticking points that led Boris Johnson to call off the negotiations on Friday.

In a highly significant move, Mr Barnier dropped the EU’s “parallelism” policy of refusing to discuss areas such trade in services until the UK made concessions on fisheries or subsidy control.....

A senior EU diplomatic source said that Mr Barnier had made the public concession to get talks back on track as soon as possible after a hiccup many European governments regard as an overreaction. “We are ready to get on the Eurostar and to get on with it. We do not have the luxury of letting this drag on,” the source said.

The second remaining obstacle from the government’s viewpoint is the EU’s insistence last week that all future moves would have to come from the UK side. A UK source close to the talks said today that Brussels still needed to withdraw that demand before talks could resume. “They need to acknowledge that it’s a negotiation and all the moves can’t be expected to come from one side,” the source said.

But Maros Sefcovic, the European Commission vice-president, suggested today that Brussels accepted “it has to be a fair agreement for both sides”.....
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Old 19th Oct 2020, 23:35
  #6269 (permalink)  
 
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There has to be a deal or set of deals somehow. The only questions are how and when.

The best deal we could ever have is the one we walked away from.

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Old 20th Oct 2020, 00:06
  #6270 (permalink)  
 
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by agreeing to “intense” discussions on legal texts.
“intensify talks in London this week, on all subjects, and
based on legal texts”
Given that exact wording is the be-all and end-all of these sorts of agreements, either the two parties are saying different things or, heaven forbid, ORAC has mis-reported





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Old 20th Oct 2020, 00:23
  #6271 (permalink)  
 
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If the talks really break down, I wonder how long the EU will resist the EU fishermen who are having to deal with being unable to fish in UK waters? Or the car firms like Mercedes, Porsche, Opel, VW etc having to pay WTF tariffs? And the high value electronic equipment firms like Wandel & Golterman and Rohde and Schwarz having higher tariffs on their already expensive equipment?

It is, after all, a two way street....
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 07:07
  #6272 (permalink)  
 
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You still don't get it.

EU=27 countries
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 07:43
  #6273 (permalink)  
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Well there's a surprise !.....not really, if you think about it. It's a bit inconvenient, for Boris et al, if as reported, the EU has accepted the UK's petulance ( sorry, negotiated terms and conditions ) because now, there would be an expectation of the sunny uplands and phoenix like rise of the UK ( as promised ) so the resulting economic downturn, redundancies, administration nightmares, changes to travel etc would be difficult to explain away....even for Boris, well as long as Boris remains in charge that is. This way., the EU can still be blamed for the inevitable consequences of leaving.

Cut and pasted from the Guardian......and who better to deliver the news than that nice Mr Gove....

" Downing Street has refused to restart Brexit deal negotiations despite https://www.theguardian.com/politics/michaelgove performing a U-turn at the dispatch box in which he praised a “constructive move” by the EU minutes after declaring the talks “effectively ended”.The EU’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, seemingly agreed to all the government’s demands for the resumption of Brexit talks in pursuit of a deal – sending a
just as Gove was making a statement in the Commons castigating the bloc.




A No 10 spokesman said the prime minister had noted the EU’s offer to “intensify” the talks during a call between Barnier and his British counterpart on Monday but insisted there remained no basis yet to resume the negotiation."
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 07:53
  #6274 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radeng View Post
It is, after all, a two way street....
EU population 446 million vs UK population 66 million
EU GDP $18.8 trillion vs UK GDP $2.8 trillion
EU share of world economy 16.3% vs UK share of world economy 2.2%
EU industrial output $5.7 trillion vs UK industrial output $0.6 trillion
EU exports to UK 6% of total EU exports vs UK exports to EU 48% of total UK exports

So youíre right, itís a two way street, in which the street is running vertically down a hill.....
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 08:20
  #6275 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
EU population 446 million vs UK population 66 million
EU GDP $18.8 trillion vs UK GDP $2.8 trillion
EU share of world economy 16.3% vs UK share of world economy 2.2%
EU industrial output $5.7 trillion vs UK industrial output $0.6 trillion
EU exports to UK 6% of total EU exports vs UK exports to EU 48% of total UK exports

So you’re right, it’s a two way street, in which the street is running vertically down a hill.....
That sums the (im) balance of power n the negotiations. In the event of no "real" deal the UK and it's businesses will be hit proportionately much harder than the EU. I keep reading the same old stuff from diehard Brexiteers about how the UK will be able to manufacture the products that it currently buys from the rest of Europe to somehow mitigate the crippling effects of the increased costs of trade from the EU, however they overlook the fact that the UK no longer has the manufacturing infrastructure to do so, and one can only imagine the furore from the shires when company "A" wants to set up a large machine tool manufacturing plant in their back yard. Planning application being thrown out by local NIMBY planning committees, being sent to appeal, then going to a public enquiry. That's how the UK works unfortunately, and would take years to get to be able to manufacture core equipment that would be required to start producing all those cars that UK buyers won't be able to afford from the likes of Skoda and Mercedes.

Of course the UK could follow the path of former countries like the DDR, which, because it didn't have access to high quality western products made their own inferior ones. Anyone fancy a UK version of a Trabant or a Wartburg?

Is the UK the first one in the modern world to actively impose trade sanctions upon itself? I can't think of any other that has been so stupid and short sighted.

KnC

A No 10 spokesman said the prime minister had noted the EU’s offer to “intensify” the talks during a call between Barnier and his British counterpart on Monday but insisted there remained no basis yet to resume the negotiation."
Any who might that "spokesman" have been? Not female judging by the wording, so Allegra Stratton can be ruled out, one Dominic Cummings seems the likely source, the unelected, but effective Minister for Destroying the UK Economy.
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 08:53
  #6276 (permalink)  
 
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I think that the German car angle has been overplayed. Eight years ago I bought a two year old Mercedes C220CDi. My wife still drives it. 240k on the dial. We went to Leeds and back last Monday and it did 52mpg. Apart from tyres and oil changes it has had virtually nothing done in the 180,000 miles of our ownership.
With that kind of performance I seriously doubt that many potential buyers are going to be deterred by the imposition of a tariff.

What Britain could do with is a basic car manufacturer. Something along the lines of Dacia, producing decent quality wheelbarrow technology cars selling for ten grand or thereabouts. I'm sure all the Brexiteers would patriotically buy one to supplement the Land Rover.
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 09:04
  #6277 (permalink)  
 
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From the latest advert about the end of transition period:

https://www.gov.uk/transition

Specifically for those interested here is the current border operating model information:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/g...perating-model
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 09:11
  #6278 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
From the latest advert about the end of transition period:

https://www.gov.uk/transition

Specifically for those interested here is the current border operating model information:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/g...perating-model
Mrs ATN, as part of her job read through that 138 page document yesterday. Pretty well unworkable was the conclusion.
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 09:15
  #6279 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
From the latest advert about the end of transition period:

https://www.gov.uk/transition

Specifically for those interested here is the current border operating model information:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/g...perating-model
In the second link you supplied I found this statement:_

"Identity cards are among the least secure documents seen at the border and ending their use will strengthen our security as the UK takes back control of its borders at the end of the transition period."

Now I do not know about other countries but here in Sweden to obtain a National Identity card you have to apply at a Police station. The same information is required to obtain an ID card as is required for a passport, and it contains the same biometric data. Not sure how that is less secure...

Last edited by Avionker; 20th Oct 2020 at 10:03. Reason: spelling
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Old 20th Oct 2020, 09:19
  #6280 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
I think that the German car angle has been overplayed. Eight years ago I bought a two year old Mercedes C220CDi. My wife still drives it. 240k on the dial. We went to Leeds and back last Monday and it did 52mpg. Apart from tyres and oil changes it has had virtually nothing done in the 180,000 miles of our ownership.
With that kind of performance I seriously doubt that many potential buyers are going to be deterred by the imposition of a tariff.

What Britain could do with is a basic car manufacturer. Something along the lines of Dacia, producing decent quality wheelbarrow technology cars selling for ten grand or thereabouts. I'm sure all the Brexiteers would patriotically buy one to supplement the Land Rover.
British Leyland, also known as 'Britisch Elend' in germany, to the rescue!
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