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BREXIT

Old 30th Sep 2020, 08:04
  #5941 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
if you mean the "crazies in control" I refer to our current, and multiple previous Govts, all of whom have been or are singularly focussed on driving up GDP growth, on the basis it will keep them in power for longer. The reality is the world has moved on, for highly developed nations like UK. What we need is a sustainable steady state economy
Refreshing to read. I absolutely agree that we have to get away from this relentless drive for "growth". It's as unsustainable from a national standpoint as it is from an environmental standpoint. And "economic growth" hasn't really improved our lot as ordinary people, it has just to a large extent to move us from a place of "working to live" to "living to work". The more the drive for growth, the more we will move in the direction of "live to work".
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 09:38
  #5942 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Refreshing to read. I absolutely agree that we have to get away from this relentless drive for "growth". It's as unsustainable from a national standpoint as it is from an environmental standpoint. And "economic growth" hasn't really improved our lot as ordinary people, it has just to a large extent to move us from a place of "working to live" to "living to work". The more the drive for growth, the more we will move in the direction of "live to work".
Thank you! In my view sustainability is the next big thing, annoyingly for me as I've been banging on about it for 20 years now !!

But i think the tide is turning, and Covid (rubbish as it is) is the perfect excuse for a sustainable reset. Alas, what do the idiots in charge propose? A three word slogan, Buildbuildbuild, a bonfire of planning regs, a £27Bn roads building programme, 300,000 new homes per annum and a £100 Bn+ on HS2. You literally couldnt make it up !!

The only hope is that enough of the electorate see this programme for the corrupt sham that it is and vote with their feet. If only we had a decent centrist alternative, that hadn't self destructed by focusing on minority rights and EU membership....
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 09:42
  #5943 (permalink)  
 
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Back to Brexit.
It doesn't look good for the car industry. According to the BBC this morning:
Britain's car industry risks losing out even if there is a post-Brexit trade deal with the EU, according to documents seen by the BBC.

Car parts from Japan and Turkey used in the UK will not be treated as British, so some exports may see higher tariffs.

In a letter, Britain's chief Brexit negotiator says the UK has failed so far to get the car parts deal it wants, and "obviously cannot insist on it".

Having enough parts sourced within the UK and EU is key to a free trade deal.

In a letter to the car industry, seen by the BBC, chief negotiator Lord Frost says one of their key priorities - that parts and components from Japan and Turkey count as British in any deal - has been rejected by the European Commission.

This risks some UK automotive production attracting taxes on trade, known as tariffs, when exported to the EU, even if there is a "zero tariff" trade deal struck with the EU.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 09:44
  #5944 (permalink)  
 
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But, but, but ....We were told that it was the German car industry that would suffer and sue for peace. What went wrong?
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 09:53
  #5945 (permalink)  
 
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Wait, so are they now telling us Brexit is going to make the UK less competitive and/or attractive? What a surprise!
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 10:34
  #5946 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Thank you! In my view sustainability is the next big thing, annoyingly for me as I've been banging on about it for 20 years now !!

But i think the tide is turning, and Covid (rubbish as it is) is the perfect excuse for a sustainable reset. Alas, what do the idiots in charge propose? A three word slogan, Buildbuildbuild, a bonfire of planning regs, a £27Bn roads building programme, 300,000 new homes per annum and a £100 Bn+ on HS2. You literally couldnt make it up !!

The only hope is that enough of the electorate see this programme for the corrupt sham that it is and vote with their feet. If only we had a decent centrist alternative, that hadn't self destructed by focusing on minority rights and EU membership....
There hasn't been a government in the last 35 years that had the competence to achieve any one of the proposals above, never mind all of them.

Last edited by Harley Quinn; 30th Sep 2020 at 10:49.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 10:48
  #5947 (permalink)  
 
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What‘s the matter with calling cars made significantly with parts from countries like Turkey or Japan as British? Sounds British to me. Just how unreasonable is the EU?
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 12:10
  #5948 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
What‘s the matter with calling cars made significantly with parts from countries like Turkey or Japan as British? Sounds British to me. Just how unreasonable is the EU?
Are they classed as British at the moment? If so then that should cotinue to be the case in the future. After all Japan and Turkey have not suddenly let the EU.

If they are not classed as British at the moment then they not be in the future.

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Old 30th Sep 2020, 12:19
  #5949 (permalink)  
 
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Bergerie 1 - Well, well, what a surprise! Your having presented relevant and factual information has, as usual, soared over the heads of our esteemed contributors. ECHR starts with an 'E'. so it MUST be one of those awful foreign ideas, and, therefore, a nasty plot against us, the true, honest, fair-minded, cricket-loving potential saviours of the modern world. The cricket reference is, nowadays, sadly, more accurately defined by the version most often quoted in the Forces - " You play ball with me, ... and I'll stick the bat up your arse"
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 12:27
  #5950 (permalink)  
 
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Are they classed as British at the moment? If so then that should cotinue to be the case in the future. After all Japan and Turkey have not suddenly let the EU.

If they are not classed as British at the moment then they not be in the future.

As a member of the EU we benefitted from its internal rules which allowed members favourable treatment on certain rules such as foreign components. It protected our manufacturers.

Outside the EU we are now a foreign country and just another competitor. Our cars will be treated like everyone else's. It's what we voted for, remember?

Last edited by Sallyann1234; 30th Sep 2020 at 18:50.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 12:30
  #5951 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
Are they classed as British at the moment? If so then that should continue to be the case in the future. After all Japan and Turkey have not suddenly let the EU.

If they are not classed as British at the moment then they not be in the future.
It is the designation as EU product that matters right now, if Made in Britain is stamped on the products is of little legal relevance. But the UK is no longer part of that internal market. In future British products must meet the criteria for acceptance into the EU under a wished-for free trade agreement. But the EU will only play ball there when enough production involving EU producers. Otherwise they will be permitting an old partner to undermine the market with back door imports.

Must admit it has always annoyed the hell out of me that products were marked Made in Britain just by virtue of some finishing process. It‘s just taking the ****
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 13:02
  #5952 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Back to Brexit.
It doesn't look good for the car industry. According to the BBC this morning:

Whilst being a firm remain voter and terribly worried about the consequences for a no deal Brexit and trading on WTO terms, which would be a disaster for all, but especially our automotive industry, I do have an issue with the UK side here in expecting to claim that parts made in Japan and Turkey should be treated as made in UK. Why? It is anticipated that the content limit will be 50%, that is 50% of the car must be made in the UK or the EU. This seems fair but why on earth did they expect anyone to treat Japanese and Turkish made components as if they were UK made? Defies any logic.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 13:53
  #5953 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
But, but, but ....We were told that it was the German car industry that would suffer and sue for peace. What went wrong?
Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
What‘s the matter with calling cars made significantly with parts from countries like Turkey or Japan as British? Sounds British to me. Just how unreasonable is the EU?
One word - Barnier . Says it all really, even if we do want our cake and eat it

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Old 30th Sep 2020, 13:58
  #5954 (permalink)  
 
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You are absolutely right PPRuNe. But it is exactly the same for the EU. Whatever labeling rules and tarrifs the EU apply to us, we should apply exactly the same to the EU. It will not be helpful to anyone but it will be fair. They can of course apply different rules for items destined for sale solely within te EU, but not for items destined for the UK.


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Old 30th Sep 2020, 15:59
  #5955 (permalink)  
 
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Keith Williams
Given the amount of basics we import from the EU, never mind the more expensive commodities I do not see that ending well for the UK. Many products are part assembled at various points within the EU, before being assembled into the end product sometimes in the UK. An example I was shown was expensive Female Lingerie which appeared to be carted around most of northern Europe before final assembly in the UK. I also am aware of the staggering amounts of food brought into the UK which we obviously also need. Disrupting this flow will obviously impact both food supply and UK businesses to a huge degree a threat which is now coming home to roost in Downing Street, which maybe why Bojo is starting to realise there is a little more to being PM rather than a poor host on HIGNFY. I suspect the 1922 Committee will be requesting a meeting soon with Bojo to put him on notice of improvements required or else.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 16:33
  #5956 (permalink)  
 
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As I said it will not do either side any good. Yes they sell us lots of food and other things. That means that we buy lots of food and other things from them. It is a two way street. Neither side will benefit if all of this stops. But if you believe that simply rolling over will get us a better deal, you are fooling yourself.
If post 5947 is correct the EU have already decided to start messing things up.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 16:54
  #5957 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
As I said it will not do either side any good. Yes they sell us lots of food and other things. That means that we buy lots of food and other things from them. It is a two way street. Neither side will benefit if all of this stops. But if you believe that simply rolling over will get us a better deal, you are fooling yourself.
If post 5947 is correct the EU have already decided to start messing things up.
Keith Williams
We (not me) voted to leave the "club", we can not expect the same privileges of membership when you have left. We do indeed buy things from them, and we will have to continue to do so to a degree whatever the cost, as it would be far more difficult and expensive to source elsewhere for some products, bearing in mind geography, and indeed quantity required. But do not worry I am sure Boris and the ERG had all thought this through during the Brexit campaign, but I should say that as a resident part time in the EU, there is a hardening of the stance against the UK due to what is seen here as the bad faith negotiations which were carried out earlier in the year, followed by the totally ambivalent way in that the UK appears happy to break international law.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 16:58
  #5958 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
As I said it will not do either side any good. Yes they sell us lots of food and other things. That means that we buy lots of food and other things from them. It is a two way street. Neither side will benefit if all of this stops. But if you believe that simply rolling over will get us a better deal, you are fooling yourself.
If post 5947 is correct the EU have already decided to start messing things up.
But it is the UK that appears to be trying to stop it. Remember the haulage industry in the UK has access to the EU because the UK is a member of the EU.
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 17:01
  #5959 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by keith williams View Post
If post 5947 is correct the EU have already decided to start messing things up.
If post 5947 is correct the EU will no longer allow us a privilege we used to have within the EU.

Did people really not realise what they were voting for in the Referendum?
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Old 30th Sep 2020, 17:18
  #5960 (permalink)  
 
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Now why did I know that this would descend into the same old arguments about how we should not have decided to leave? Get over it, it is happening.

I am not arguing that we should should retain the benefits of membership. That is what the EU has demanded regarding fishing rights in UK waters. I am simply saying that if we cannot use the told rules to export to the EU, then logically the EU should not expect to use the old rules when exporting to us. Fair for the goose fair for the gander.
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