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BREXIT

Old 9th Sep 2020, 17:29
  #5661 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Beyond the Blue Horizon
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Rogerg
It has happened, but you have yet to feel the results.

ATN
I think your idea of postponing or delaying, though undoubtedly the correct action, is too pragmatic for this Circus of Clowns. As for getting back into the EU I think when you live in the EU, and look at what is happening in the UK ,you sort of ask why would they want the UK back with the current govt attitudes.

Kind regards
Mr Mac
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 17:29
  #5662 (permalink)  
 
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The difference between us is that I want BREXIT to succeed and you do not.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 17:33
  #5663 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
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to get his Brexit done.
Actually I think that it our Brexit, we voted in the referendum for Brexit, then voted in Johnson with an 80 seat majority to implement our Brexit, it was a democratic process, and despite the carping the electorate would most likely do exactly the same again.
I for one am pleased that we have a Government that is carrying out our wishes and appears to be determined not to allow us to be shafted by the EU.

any sane politician would have delayed leaving transition by 6 - 12 months in the light of Covid-19 to ensure the best possible trade deal with the EU,
Why would that action ensure the best possible deal? The EU are interested in spinning this out for another 5 years in order to screw more money out of us, covid has no bearing on Brexit negotiations, Johnson is doing the right thing in not being drawn into protracted and costly endless negotiations, the EU have said that the situation on fishing and state subsidies are not up for negotiation and then blamed us for not negotiating them.

I am not a Johnson fan, but in this I am thinking that he is doing the right thing, at the time of the referendum Nigel Lawson gave an interview where he said that it just was simply impossible to negotiate with the EU, and he was right.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 17:36
  #5664 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
It is dereliction of duty for the government not to have done that.
Of course it is, but Bojo is too stupid and self-aggrandising to delay the date, regardless of the fact that the UK will need 50 years to recover from the damage he has done since he first put that bloody great lie on the side of a bus, as his puppet-master told him to. The only hope for us is that now that the Brexit promises and "deals" are unravelling at an increasing pace, and as the Government becomes increasingly chaotic and lost, the moment where BoJo is chucked out gets closer and closer so that it may happen in time for his replacement to show commonsense and delay things, or even just put the whole nightmare on ice indefinitely.

I know, dream on. But it is possible.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 17:39
  #5665 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by rogerg View Post
The difference between us is that I want BREXIT to succeed and you do not.
Not true, I would have preferred it not to have happened in the first place, but for the futures of my children, and now grand children I really do hope that the country does succeed and that they have work, and some of the opportunities I had; indeed I would like to think that by the time my grand children get towards the world of work the UK will be looking to return to the fold as a full member rather than the membership we had before where we wrestled opt-outs from key projects, and constantly behaved as arch leader of the awkward squad.

The jury is however out as to whether we get a shot at fully embracing Europe before I'm in my box, whether it happens will depend on just how successful the country is 20 years or so down the line. That nobody knows, but my glass remains half empty, whereas your's is probably half full.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 17:51
  #5666 (permalink)  
 
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Arthur Bellcrank
Indeed the electorate did vote to leave, and get Brexit done, but Bojo has been a very avid supporter, so he will be forever linked with this historically. As for not been able to negotiate with the EU, I would give you Japan and Canada as two recent examples which are even mentioned periodically by this govt. However UK negotiating of trade deals is not something the UK has much skill in, and many who fulfilled this role while working within the EU have declined the offer to work for HMG preferring to stay in Europe, or indeed work privately. The trade deals so far negotiated with the likes of the Faroe Islands are not in the same league as the ones that will be required for the US / Japan etc, never mind the EU. As I work in Germany and trade world wide, we have periodic meetings with our EU representatives, and indeed are occasionally asked if we would like to attend trade delegations with them. When we were UK based we did attend some things with UK Trade delegations, though I can honestly say I was less than impressed, and started to decline the offers over the years preferring my own contacts. There is a very steep learning curve coming, and I am not sure the hard work which will be required is something Bojo is really cut out for, even when he was well and visible, rather than the less well, and invisible Bojo post Covid infection.

Kind regards
Mr Mac
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 17:54
  #5667 (permalink)  
 
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ATN
Will raise that half empty glass with you, prost.

Cheers
Mr Mac
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 17:58
  #5668 (permalink)  
 
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Possibly that is why Johnson is building up a team around Tony Abbot, I fully accept the shortcomings of Johnson, but the alternatives were May and Corbyn, so events unfolded this way, let's hope that he does know what he is doing.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 18:25
  #5669 (permalink)  
 
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Mr Mac

Zum Wohl!!
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 18:40
  #5670 (permalink)  
 
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A fascinating insight into the 'thinking' processes operating within some of our members.
It's not unusual to find people like Roger G and A B 'hooraying' for the Brexit result. It's a common trait of humanity to 'whistle in the dark' as a boost to keep trepidation at bay. "I've made my mind up, don't confuse me with the facts" is the unspoken mantra of the unthinking - classically, the Captain of the Titanic!! There may well be benefits, of course - potential customers for a nice line in bridges in the Brooklyn area or, if they really wish to benefit, if they care to pass on their bank details, someone will be delighted to guide them to several millions of unclaimed dollars (or pounds) in need of expatriation.
Unfortunately, their hopes and beliefs are based on the potential and actual qualities of the buffoon. While his ever-present rictus smirk provides his over-worked PR clowns with a possible starting point, his activity (and lack-of) and record of over-indulgence in (WSC's) "terminological inexactitudes" coupled with a history including 'Garden Bridges, illegal water-cannon and utterly impractical airports in the Thames, offer nothing but disappointment.
Our optimistic pair additionally swallow the lie that the British populace voted to provide a large majority for the Tories. They didn't ... a corrupt electoral system manipulated the actual voting numbers to give the present situation, in much the same way as Trump garnered 3 million less votes than the 'losing candidate' across the Pond - laughingly referred to as "Democracy" or, even more bizarrely, as Liberal Democracy".
Given the above, the Brexit referendum result was unsurprising, as is their blind faith in their leader - "None so blind as those who will not see!"
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 18:56
  #5671 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
A fascinating insight into the 'thinking' processes operating within some of our members.
It's not unusual to find people like Roger G and A B 'hooraying' for the Brexit result. It's a common trait of humanity to 'whistle in the dark' as a boost to keep trepidation at bay. "I've made my mind up, don't confuse me with the facts" is the unspoken mantra of the unthinking - classically, the Captain of the Titanic!! There may well be benefits, of course - potential customers for a nice line in bridges in the Brooklyn area or, if they really wish to benefit, if they care to pass on their bank details, someone will be delighted to guide them to several millions of unclaimed dollars (or pounds) in need of expatriation.
Unfortunately, their hopes and beliefs are based on the potential and actual qualities of the buffoon. While his ever-present rictus smirk provides his over-worked PR clowns with a possible starting point, his activity (and lack-of) and record of over-indulgence in (WSC's) "terminological inexactitudes" coupled with a history including 'Garden Bridges, illegal water-cannon and utterly impractical airports in the Thames, offer nothing but disappointment.
Our optimistic pair additionally swallow the lie that the British populace voted to provide a large majority for the Tories. They didn't ... a corrupt electoral system manipulated the actual voting numbers to give the present situation, in much the same way as Trump garnered 3 million less votes than the 'losing candidate' across the Pond - laughingly referred to as "Democracy" or, even more bizarrely, as Liberal Democracy".
Given the above, the Brexit referendum result was unsurprising, as is their blind faith in their leader - "None so blind as those who will not see!"
Cornish Jack,

Your undisguised anguish at the result of the EU ref and the election of a Tory party led by PM Johnson is pure elixir to all those you disparage with your ignorant remarks and who previously had to suffer untold undemocratic attempts to overturn their legitimate wish to leave the EU.

It always baffles me how you and your like cannot mention the EU ref result and all that followed without commenting on US politics and Trump. Are you a US resident? Do you know who Trump stood against in the last election? (Clue: a ghastly woman who supported her husband when he, in a position of power, sexually assaulted young women). Why do you care? And if you do, why cannot you see that Trump won because the alternative was so much worse?

Your continuing bitterness gives huge enjoyment to me and the other Brexit winners. Please don't stop.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 18:56
  #5672 (permalink)  
 
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Its a real honour to be kind of named by CJ. I still think that he speaks a kind of bullshit, but who knows who will be proved correct.
Cant do much about it anyway.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 19:08
  #5673 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
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It's not unusual to find people like Roger G and A B 'hooraying' for the Brexit result.
That is because 17,410,742 of us voted for the Brexit result that you are so distressed about and tried so hard to support those trying (unsuccessfully) to overturn the democratic vote. But don't worry, the majority of us knew very clearly what we were doing when we put the cross in the box.

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Old 9th Sep 2020, 19:46
  #5674 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Training Risky View Post
Please take your vapid undemocratic sniping elsewhere..
I disagree. There's nothing more satisfying than a poor loser trying to make every possible excuse why a vote didn't go the way they wanted it to go.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:11
  #5675 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Arthur Bellcrank View Post
That is because 17,410,742 of us voted for the Brexit result that you are so distressed about and tried so hard to support those trying (unsuccessfully) to overturn the democratic vote. But don't worry, the majority of us knew very clearly what we were doing when we put the cross in the box.
But it wasn’t a democratic process. The level of discussion rarely got beyond the level of the school playground and the lay voter had little chance of knowing the merits and demerits of the matter. Instead there was a cocaphany of lies, half-truths and inadequate national discussion that was the backdrop to one of the most significant decisions the UK has made for many decades. And it even threatens the UK existentially by giving new and stronger wind to ascensionIst interests.

It is the dumbest nonesense imaginable and the UK will pay dearly for decades, effectively taking a giant step backward to the seventies. Meanwhile, the faithful will be standing on the shores of the Red Sea waiting to cross to the promised land. Because that is what Brexit ultimately is; a grand leap of faith, borne of frustration and false arguments. What nation leaves the world’s largest trading block? It is an act of utter recklessness and the British politicians who have championed this and misled the British public with false promises will come tol be seen as betrayers of the national interest in the long-term. How else is this realistically going to play out?

And rejoining the EU in all but name is a inevitable in long-term. But never on the terms we had. How stupid.

In a true free trade environment the UK will descend into even greater public poverty and get eaten by the EU and rivals (sorry key trading partners) like China and the USA. The world‘s rich will continue to use the UK as a money laundering hub and buy its assets, pricing out citizens who do not have the means to compete or a government with pockets deep enough to truly reinvigorate the national interest.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:28
  #5676 (permalink)  
 
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But it wasn’t a democratic process.
Yes it was. So was the last General Election, very democratic, or is your opinion tainted because the minority of people wished to remain in the EU. It is tedious that those people who voted to leave have to bear the unjust accusation that they didn't know what they were doing.
We did.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:35
  #5677 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Training Risky View Post
Please take your vapid undemocratic sniping elsewhere.
Why should he? Because he doesn’t agree with you? Because he has strongly held beliefs that don’t fit your narrative?
I don’t agree with what a lot of people on here post, I certainly don’t share their political views or allegiances. I would however never, ever attempt to censor them, to deny their right to free speech. I would hope everyone here is mature enough to hold a similar view.

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Old 9th Sep 2020, 20:40
  #5678 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Arthur Bellcrank View Post
Yes it was. So was the last General Election, very democratic, or is your opinion tainted because the minority of people wished to remain in the EU. It is tedious that those people who voted to leave have to bear the unjust accusation that they didn't know what they were doing.
We did.
You may have done. But you is not we.

It is obvious that a lot of people who fervently voted Brexit didn‘t have a clue about the broader implications. Or didn’t care. They may well have voted to leave anyway following a proper national discussion about the UK’s relationship with the EU, which would have been fine. But the childish nature of the Brexit discussion reflected a broader political immaturity in the country.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 21:13
  #5679 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Originally Posted by 747 jock View Post
I disagree. There's nothing more satisfying than a poor loser trying to make every possible excuse why a vote didn't go the way they wanted it to go.
Unfortunately the poor losers are going to be the Great British public.
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Old 9th Sep 2020, 22:46
  #5680 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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It was only achieved through lies, lies, miss representation and more lies. Read my post on my cousin and if that does not convince you this should....



And now our illustrious government is proposing to break international law. Where will it end?


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