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BREXIT

Old 23rd Jan 2020, 18:33
  #4341 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Negotiations are to take place in parallel with the EU and the US, who each insist on their own regulatory alignment.
No problem there then.
How on Earth do other countries that export worldwide (e.g. Japan, Malaysia, etc) manage to survive? Or, closer to your comment, how do the EU export to the US or the US to the EU, without a deal, when each has their own regulations?

Oh, I know, they make things for their markets that comply with the regulations of that market. It's been going on for decades.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 19:08
  #4342 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
How on Earth do other countries that export worldwide (e.g. Japan, Malaysia, etc) manage to survive? Or, closer to your comment, how do the EU export to the US or the US to the EU, without a deal, when each has their own regulations?

Oh, I know, they make things for their markets that comply with the regulations of that market. It's been going on for decades.
And producing for a market with differing rules and regulations is more expensive. My god, is that so difficult to understand?
There's none so blind...
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 21:42
  #4343 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
And producing for a market with differing rules and regulations is more expensive. My god, is that so difficult to understand?
There's none so blind...
The EU with its huge home market, has to meet export rules and versions for the US.

The US with its huge home market, has to meet export rules and versions for the EU.

The UK with its relatively small home market will have to meet two different sets of rules and regulations to trade with both the EU and the US. That's why industry has issued so many warnings.
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 22:36
  #4344 (permalink)  
 
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Lets see if I understand this correctly, businesses currently meet both EU and USA standards on all we export to them, which is quite a lot, post Brexit those businesses are apparently going to have to change those standards and have two sets, one for the EU and one for the USA that are different from those we currently have, WHY?
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Old 23rd Jan 2020, 22:49
  #4345 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Lets see if I understand this correctly, businesses currently meet both EU and USA standards on all we export to them, which is quite a lot, post Brexit those businesses are apparently going to have to change those standards and have two sets, one for the EU and one for the USA that are different from those we currently have, WHY?
No. they’re going to have to prove that they still conform to the EU rules (a European does love his paperwork) and the US are going to demand access for their products which are of a differing standard (usually cheaper) and the U.K. manufacturers are going to have to compete.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 06:29
  #4346 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Lets see if I understand this correctly, businesses currently meet both EU and USA standards on all we export to them, which is quite a lot, post Brexit those businesses are apparently going to have to change those standards and have two sets, one for the EU and one for the USA that are different from those we currently have, WHY?
simple example:
There are rules and regulations regarding wiring. The Us and the Eu wires are different, i cannot use one in the other appliance. Therefore i have to have two sets of wires on the shelves in my warehouse. The ordered quantities from my suppliers is only half of each, which makes them more expensive. I have more money lying around in my warehouse and i need more storage space. i have two sets of componenbts in my computer, and don't think that this is just storage space on a harddisk, the data has to be kept up to date and maintained. my production line has to be able to produce two sets of appliances.
Sometimes you need different tools for the different markets. The stupid wire example shows this: american insulation on wires is a lot harder that the european insulation. We found it easier to get pliers and cutters from the states than destroy our european tools.
And now you want to incorporate a third set of regulations?

please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes, this was written in a rush...
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 07:03
  #4347 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ThorMos View Post
simple example:
There are rules and regulations regarding wiring. The Us and the Eu wires are different, i cannot use one in the other appliance. Therefore i have to have two sets of wires on the shelves in my warehouse. The ordered quantities from my suppliers is only half of each, which makes them more expensive. I have more money lying around in my warehouse and i need more storage space. i have two sets of componenbts in my computer, and don't think that this is just storage space on a harddisk, the data has to be kept up to date and maintained. my production line has to be able to produce two sets of appliances.
Sometimes you need different tools for the different markets. The stupid wire example shows this: american insulation on wires is a lot harder that the european insulation. We found it easier to get pliers and cutters from the states than destroy our european tools.
And now you want to incorporate a third set of regulations?

please excuse any spelling or grammar mistakes, this was written in a rush...
So you have that now, why will Brexit make that any different with continuing that same trade, people really do seem to be making up problems as they go along.

I take it that currently no-one has to produce paperwork to confirm they are complying with current regulations and if the product is using the existing production materials and machines it will remain at the current acceptable standard, unless people are saying that businesses are going to change production runs on purpose to lower standards from what they have been compliant with for years, just because of Brexit, and don't care about loss of existing trade, real clever business model that one is, at least they have a ready made excuse for failure called Brexit.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 07:14
  #4348 (permalink)  
 
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What's being discussed here is basically the idea behind the EU. Promote trade (=jobs) by making it dead easy.

Anyone in any country can produce goods and export them to another country. The goods only need to comply with that country's laws and regulations. However tariffs, delays, paperwork and other inconveniences are to be expected. It appears to me that a lot of people don't have any understanding of how companies make a living or how the commercial world works. BTW, should there not be any proper trade agreements made between UK and the EU, Northern Ireland will have to process imported goods from the UK just like Chinese ones.

Yes, the UK economy is 80% services and only 20% manufacturing. But the UK government seems specifically not to want to make any agreements with the EU on the service sector. Well, Russian and Middle East bank clients couldn't care less.

Perhaps the UK will succeed in morphing itself into a Singapore-like economy, but I wonder how long that is going to take.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 07:30
  #4349 (permalink)  
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There should be no further concerns about the UK leaving the EU, because......salvation is at hand !.......according to the Excess that is. All signed by the end of the year in fact, so only a mere 11 months to endure any short term adverse effects .....plucky Britain will merely weather this inconvenience of course. This assumes the population has not been decimated as helpfully headlined by the apocalyptic headlines from other rags.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51230904
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 07:45
  #4350 (permalink)  
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European Commission, Council presidents sign Brexit deal

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and European Council President Charles Michel this morning signed the agreement on the withdrawal of the U.K. from the EU.

In a tweet announcing the move, Michel said: "Things will inevitably change but our friendship will remain. We start a new chapter as partners and allies." He added, in French, that he looked "forward to writing this new page together."

The European Parliament’s Constitutional Affairs Committee gave its consent to the withdrawal deal Thursday, with all MEPs in the European Parliament set to approve the agreement next week......
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 07:58
  #4351 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
There should be no further concerns about the UK leaving the EU, because......salvation is at hand !.......according to the Excess that is. All signed by the end of the year in fact, so only a mere 11 months to endure any short term adverse effects .....plucky Britain will merely weather this inconvenience of course. This assumes the population has not been decimated as helpfully headlined by the apocalyptic headlines from other rags.....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51230904
Should be fine then ! The UK will naturally swiftly adjust its stance on a number of matters like Huawei and Iran's nuclear efforts, as requested.

Last edited by Gargleblaster; 24th Jan 2020 at 08:16.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 08:27
  #4352 (permalink)  
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To take the wiring question further. Thanks to Edward Leigh we have moulded 13 amp plugs. They can be used in only one orientation. The EU have flat two-pin or two-pin and two earth with two orientation possible. Internally the EU switch breaks both live and neutral. US plugs are also moulded two blade and work on a different voltage too.

Manufacturers seem to be able to cope.

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Old 24th Jan 2020, 08:30
  #4353 (permalink)  
 
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I take it that currently no-one has to produce paperwork to confirm they are complying with current regulations and if the product is using the existing production materials and machines it will remain at the current acceptable standard, unless people are saying that businesses are going to change production runs on purpose to lower standards from what they have been compliant with for years, just because of Brexit, and don't care about loss of existing trade, real clever business model that one is, at least they have a ready made excuse for failure called Brexit.
You might physically be doing exactly the same thing, but your are now doing it under a different regulatory regime. So now you will need to prove that you meet EU requirements when you import - extra complexity, extra cost.

Anyone in any country can produce goods and export them to another country. The goods only need to comply with that country's laws and regulations. However tariffs, delays, paperwork and other inconveniences are to be expected. It appears to me that a lot of people don't have any understanding of how companies make a living or how the commercial world works. BTW, should there not be any proper trade agreements made between UK and the EU, Northern Ireland will have to process imported goods from the UK just like Chinese ones.
Yes - spot on.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 09:10
  #4354 (permalink)  
 
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You might physically be doing exactly the same thing, but you are now doing it under a different regulatory regime. So now you will need to prove that you meet EU requirements when you import - extra complexity, extra cost.
I take it that businesses over the last god knows how many years have never had to prove they meet EU standards before, if they have had to before Brexit, which I am sure they have had to, then why would continuing to prove that they still meet the required standards mean more complexity and extra cost.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 09:25
  #4355 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
I take it that businesses over the last god knows how many years have never had to prove they meet EU standards before.
In the sector I worked in,(built environment and construction), no, but can't speak for others. If we were using something built outside the EU we needed to carry out checks and due diligence that it did meet EU/UK standards. Time and cost impact.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 09:32
  #4356 (permalink)  
 
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Just to add that my professional qualifications were accepted in EU counties but now it appears that after Brexit I will have to be re assessed which involves re validation. Again time and cost impact, no confirmation yet, but perhaps for each EU country.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 10:15
  #4357 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
To take the wiring question further. Thanks to Edward Leigh we have moulded 13 amp plugs. They can be used in only one orientation. The EU have flat two-pin or two-pin and two earth with two orientation possible. Internally the EU switch breaks both live and neutral. US plugs are also moulded two blade and work on a different voltage too.

Manufacturers seem to be able to cope.
of course they are able to cope, they have to if they want to sell in another country. But, does that make the products cheaper or more expensive? Does a third set of rules for something like 60+ million people make things more complicated? And, maybe you didn't know this… Brazil is changing its rules and regulations to come in line with european standards...
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 10:47
  #4358 (permalink)  
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ThorMos, I didn't but why is that relevant. They will then be doing no more than we are doing at the moment and should be able to do in the future for EU trade.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 12:28
  #4359 (permalink)  
 
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I thought Brazil (and some other South American countries) had negotiated a trade agreement with the EU a few years back? Didn't it take about 20 years or something?
Chickens being the main export to the EU which upset many farmers in France. But restrictions were put in place because there were cases of Salmonella, hence I guess they are improving their regulations to comply.
Big question here though, is why does the EU undermine their own farmers?
In this day and age of climate change, transporting loads of chickens a third of the way around the World seems ridiculous at best, plus the cutting down of the forests to make way for the chicken farms.
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Old 24th Jan 2020, 13:08
  #4360 (permalink)  
 
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Once again it appears that it needs to be mentioned that the UK is not negotiating any new trade deals with the EU, it is merely negotiating under what terms existing trade is going to continue to be conducted, and that is not the same, in any way shape or form, as what would be required for negotiating new trade deals from scratch.
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