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BREXIT

Old 27th Dec 2019, 14:34
  #4141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
The results of the negotiations are not dependent on what I think about the matter.
Not sure I'm understanding your response.
You said you would accept the result of the elections no matter what it would be.
The negotiations are to be conducted by the PM resulting from the elections, will you accept them no matter what you think about them ?
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 14:37
  #4142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Not sure I'm understanding your response.
You said you would accept the result of the elections no matter what it would be.
The negotiations are to be conducted by the PM resulting from the elections, will you accept them no matter what you think about them ?
Yes I will, there can be no other reply.
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 15:18
  #4143 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
That is assuming that all Labour voters were Remain and all Tory ones Leave.
Sorted, I think we can safely assume that is bollocks. I am sure many die-hard Labour leavers voted Corbyn and I know similar Tory remainers voted Johnson. As the assumption is false so are any conclusions.
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 15:20
  #4144 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by under_exposed View Post
The total number of votes cast for Parties opposed to the Labour Party was MUCH MUCH greater than the total for the Labour Party.
Brilliant.
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 15:42
  #4145 (permalink)  
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 18:35
  #4146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
Yes I will, there can be no other reply.
Thank your for your response.
Now that the Parliament seems to be disposed to vote a blank check for the PM, and relinquish their say into his negotiations, I was wondering whether people who welcomed the present PM would also welcome what he's going to negotiate.
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 23:23
  #4147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
What on earth is CJ doing making unattributed quotes in support of his own undemocratic views.

Our system has flaws, the value of a vote varies hugely from constituency to constituency. An equable balance would see more Liberal and fewer SNP MPs. It would also see no majority Government and probably a near permanent alignment to Socialism.

Would a one party system, like Russia, be better than a two-party system like the US?
Hi Pontius, I take it you are are either joking, or exaggerating to make a point!

To my very limited knowledge of democratic systems in various countries, it seems the US and the UK share this one-man constituency system. Probably based on need 200 years ago where someone needed to be elected in a remote county, and people needed to ride for days to announce who won.

So, in the US, a majority voted for Hilary, but Trump won. In the UK, a majority voted for parties or candidates that wanted to cancel or put Brexit up for another vote, but Boris got a huge majority.

All of the UK's democratic neighbors have a system that aims at honouring personal votes. Where I live, no-majority governments are a rule. Guess what, it keeps us from all kinds of idiots fooling the public and hijacking the country. It mandates consensus, which to you may sound as a veryyy - veryyy bad thing.

It sounds like you see the only alternative to the UK system being a one party system or socialism. This is interesting, and would I urge you to elaborate.
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Old 27th Dec 2019, 23:58
  #4148 (permalink)  
 
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Darn, walked right into one of Pontiusís traps again...
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 11:58
  #4149 (permalink)  
 
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CJ - your logic is completely flawed I'm afraid, please give it a rest.
Back in 1997 when Labour had a landslide victory, far larger than the Conservatives have now (L418, C165, LD46) - I bet you the electoral system was fine and dandy then!
But lets look at the figures:
Labour: 13,518,167
Conservative: 9,600,943
Lib Dems: 5,242,947
Therefore 14,843,890 voted against Labour which logically means by your reasoning Tony Blair was a dictator who didn't have a mandate to govern the country - as considerably MORE people didn't vote Labour.

As flawed as our electoral system is, I personally think its better than some of the PR systems which often produce weak governments that are indecisive. (see the last 2 years)
Besides, if we had a PR system, think of all those fascists that would be MPs - there would literally be riots by certain factions of the left.

To bring it back on topic, I know a number of passionate remainers, a few voted Tory and a few Liberal - so to count the votes along party lines based on the Brexit stance as already stated is false.
The only main party that had a Brexit policy to enact the 2016 referendum was the Tories and they won. Ergo, Brexit (in some form) will now happen.
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 13:10
  #4150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Filler Dent View Post
Ergo, Brexit (in some form) will now happen.
Indeed, what would be interesting is some hints as to what is going to happen next.
Recently watched some experts discussing the future of brexit developments. The consensus was that though BJ is considered widely unpredictable, the most probable course of action will be to try and ensure his next election, so he might do everything for his electorate to be (relatively) satisfied, and avoid any major disruptions.

How would he do that ? The idea was that he would keep his country globally aligned with the EU rules - while telling the contrary to his countrymen - and agree to most of the EU demands like with the withdrawal agreement, in order for general lines to be agreed withing the very limited timeframe he is self-imposing.

The fisheries agreements will probably result in a status quo with another name, as I often had the opportunity to predict.
The end result is likely to be some sort of Brino with a faux-nez.
The best win-win scenario given the circumstances.
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 13:15
  #4151 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Gargleblaster View Post
Darn, walked right into one of Pontiusís traps again...
😀
I posed the question as either or whereas in fact your coalition is a third way.

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Old 28th Dec 2019, 14:16
  #4152 (permalink)  
 
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Having watched a lot of the BBC parliament channel in the last few months,
I am not convinced that MP's should be allowed to decide anything.
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 14:40
  #4153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by esa-aardvark View Post
Having watched a lot of the BBC parliament channel in the last few months,
I am not convinced that MP's should be allowed to decide anything.
Well that's a shame. They chose the Prime Minister for the next five(?) years.

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Old 28th Dec 2019, 14:59
  #4154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Well that's a shame. They chose the Prime Minister for the next five(?) years.

Maybe that was his point ?
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 17:11
  #4155 (permalink)  
 
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Apologies if this has been previously posted, I’ve checked back on the thread and can’t see it.

A little festive podcast, Ivan Rogers (the former UK ambassador to the EU), delivered a talk to Policy Scotland, University of Glasgow just before UK election, viewing the current Brexit landscape, with the aid of Dickens’ A Christmas Carol.

https://policyscotland.gla.ac.uk/gho...ure-full-text/

For an audio only version, follow the RT… "Brexit Republic" link

https://podcast.rasset.ie/podcasts/a...82195_232_.mp3

JAS
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 21:33
  #4156 (permalink)  
 
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Look let's be clear this government is Dominic Cummins government. He's made clear what he wants. Check him out online. He doesn't even pretend otherwise. I give him credit for that.

Johnson is a puppet because of course he has no real agenda except to become PM. He's a liar. We all know that. But the worst thing he believes own lies.

He's achieved that but like a dog who chases cars he has no real idea of what to do when you catch one. He's lied his way to the top.

This next year will be interesting.

But this time next year the UK will leave without a deal which is of course DC'S and BJ's intention all along.

Of course the reality of Brexit will be obvious by then. All the fantasy will be dissipated.


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Old 28th Dec 2019, 22:07
  #4157 (permalink)  
 
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CJ - your logic is completely flawed I'm afraid, please give it a rest.
Interesting statement, based, like so many responses here on nothing but personal, totally flawed perceptions. You have absolutey NO idea of my likes/dislikes/politics other than what I post here and your conclusions derive from assumptions coloured by your own prejudices. Such deliberative processes debase any form of debate and have all the logical value of playground temper tantrums. A suggestion - just read the words, try to understand what's written, not your 'knee-jerk reaction to it. A vain hope. perhaps but "politics is the art of the possible! ???
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 22:19
  #4158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post
But this time next year the UK will leave without a deal which is of course DC'S and BJ's intention all along.
i disagree. BJís only intention Was to get elected. Leave remain, he didnít care. He read the tea leaves and went with leave. I think the royal we do him a great disservice in calling him a bafoon. He alienated everyone including his own family to achieve his holy prize. To become the 19th Etonian PM. All else is secondary to that.
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Old 28th Dec 2019, 22:37
  #4159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Steepclimb View Post

Johnson is a puppet because of course he has no real agenda except to become PM. He's a liar. We all know that. But the worst thing he believes own lies.

He's achieved that but like a dog who chases cars he has no real idea of what to do when you catch one. He's lied his way to the top.

This next year will be interesting.

But this time next year the UK will leave without a deal which is of course DC'S and BJ's intention all along.

Of course the reality of Brexit will be obvious by then. All the fantasy will be dissipated.
Not sure what this DC guy really wants, besides "destroying the system".
This is what I read :
I suspect Cummings has long seen Johnson as a useful vehicle awaiting a driver
Considering his resume, he would appear to this foreigner as some sort of guru the politicians are unable to get rid of...
Speaking of politicians, we have some mediocre specimens on the Continent, but you beat us hands down...

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Old 28th Dec 2019, 22:41
  #4160 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post


i disagree. BJís only intention Was to get elected. Leave remain, he didnít care. He read the tea leaves and went with leave. I think the royal we do him a great disservice in calling him a bafoon. He alienated everyone including his own family to achieve his holy prize. To become the 19th Etonian PM. All else is secondary to that.
Actually you're right. I give him too much credit. The tragedy is that he achieved his ambition. To be PM.

He's made it. But it won't be to benefit of Britain or even England. Or anyone frankly.

I find it hard to imagine that he ever thought he would preside over the end of the UK.
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