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BREXIT

Old 18th Dec 2019, 05:11
  #4021 (permalink)  
 
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Flocci old bean, I think you will find that Momentum want exactly that reaction. I don't care about The election result, Boris is welcome to his minutes in the sun, however Brexit will be a disaster, and he will own it.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 07:23
  #4022 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wig Wag View Post
The PM is respecting his core electorate which now includes diehard Labour voters who switched to Tory as they were Leave voters with a Remain Labour MP. If he lets them down they will go back to Labour at the next election.

Sensible thing is to ensure a clean break and get re-elected.
To do so, from the point of view of getting re-elected, given the position we are in the electoral cycle would be suicidal! If we were to leave transition on 31.12.2020 with no trade deal that would without doubt cause severe repercussions in the manufacturing sector at least; and where are the manufacturing jobs? In the Midlands and North. And would those voters who lent the Tories their support going to thank them for worsening, rather than improving their economic lot? No!
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 08:15
  #4023 (permalink)  
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ATNotts, I applaud your moderate pessimism which is a far better than the strident rabble rousing from the likes of EF.

Mathematically opposition parties gained more support than the Tories but were denied the seats needed to defeat the Governing party but that is our system. A system that some applaud when they won and deplore when they loose. Only the Lib Dems are consistent but then they lose consistently.

As a note: we are not anonymous here so beware.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 10:18
  #4024 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Katya Adler on BBC news saying that Brexit isn't going to get done. The EU will play hardball on a trade deal and we will be forced out without one. There are some very tough times ahead.
Doesn't that statement contradict itself? She (allegedly) said "that Brexit isn't going to get done" followed by "we will be forced out without" a trade deal. That sounds like a no-deal Brexit to me, ergo Brexit does "get done"
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 11:04
  #4025 (permalink)  
 
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Brexit "Getting done" in the Boris sense means leaving in an orderly manner. Leaving without a deal will plunge this country into chaos and with the only option an "America first" trade deal with an increasingly erratic POTUS or possibly trying to deal with an incumbent Democrat with decidedly Irish sympathies.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 11:10
  #4026 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Brexit "Getting done" in the Boris sense means leaving in an orderly manner. Leaving without a deal will plunge this country into chaos and with the only option an "America first" trade deal with an increasingly erratic POTUS or possibly trying to deal with an incumbent Democrat with decidedly Irish sympathies.
In that case you should have worded your post...

Katya Adler on BBC news saying that the UK will not leave the EU in an orderly manner. The EU will play hardball on a trade deal and we will be forced out without one. There are some very tough times ahead.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 11:12
  #4027 (permalink)  
 
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What do you expect?, Katya Adler, is well known as a 100% Pro-EU reporter, she makes no attempt to hide her bias.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 11:22
  #4028 (permalink)  
 
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You probably didn't get the nuance of my post. The whole point was that the election slogan of "Get Brexit Done" implied that it would be done in the way that had been claimed. You know the one, "The easiest trade deal in history" of Liam Fox fame. I suggest that Boris should have chosen "Just get out" it would have been more honest.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 12:30
  #4029 (permalink)  
 
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it would have been more honest.
Oh come on, we are talking about politicians and TV Presenters here
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 13:22
  #4030 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slaine View Post
What do you expect?, Katya Adler, is well known as a 100% Pro-EU reporter, she makes no attempt to hide her bias.
Katya Aldler is in the EU, to report the EU's views. That's her job.
The fact that you don't like what the EU thinks doesn't make her biased. It's your own bias that won't let you see the other point of view.
Don't blame the messenger.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 13:25
  #4031 (permalink)  
 
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It's your own bias that won't let you see the other point of view.
OOOH Sal, you're opening a can of worms with that statement.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 14:09
  #4032 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
Katya Aldler is in the EU, to report the EU's views. That's her job.
The fact that you don't like what the EU thinks doesn't make her biased. It's your own bias that won't let you see the other point of view.
Don't blame the messenger.
I do recognise the difference between reporting and defending, Sally
You are right though I am Biased, how about you?
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 14:35
  #4033 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Slaine View Post
I do recognise the difference between reporting and defending, Sally
You are right though I am Biased, how about you?
I'm biased in favour of what's best for my country.
It appears that I'm in a minority on here.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 14:38
  #4034 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by flocci_non_faccio View Post


I can’t post links. However, it’s not difficult to do a quick search for some of the reactions from the continent in the wake of the election result. Suddenly there is a realisation that Boris has the will and the mandate to do whatever he wants, and that includes taking us out with no deal at the end of the transition period.


Living on the Continent, hearing about reactions of the EU isn't difficult ;-)

Yes there is some realisation that Boris says you're leaving, but why would it be the EU that realises ?

Are you not aware of the two withdrawal agreements that the EU crafted and negotiated with two successive UK governments ? And what about those extensive buildings in continental ports and and right side of the Channel Tunnel to cope with no-deal traffic ? Or the fisheries provisions, NI Irish sea border etc. prepared for 3-4 years after the standstill transition period ?

Remember that's the fourth Brexit that the UK is heading to, if the EU was so unaware, how come you couldn't have them sign a WA with your own conditions ?

Saying that the UK is still unprepared and its priorities and requests are still to be established would be much closer to reality.
And what BJ will actually do remains a matter of conjecture, not sure he himself actually knows...
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 15:01
  #4035 (permalink)  
 
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Sallyann,

I'm with you, for one. Looking at Brexit from the European side where I live, Brexit is stark raving bonkers!
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 15:18
  #4036 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I'm biased in favour of what's best for my country.
It appears that I'm in a minority on here.
Let me correct that for you...

I'm biased in favour of what I think is best for my country.
It appears that I'm in a majority on here.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 15:27
  #4037 (permalink)  
 
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As the gearbox said to the differential. it's all a matter of opinion.
We will see whose opinion was correct before too long.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 15:33
  #4038 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
Brexit "Getting done" in the Boris sense means leaving in an orderly manner. Leaving without a deal will plunge this country into chaos and with the only option an "America first" trade deal with an increasingly erratic POTUS or possibly trying to deal with an incumbent Democrat with decidedly Irish sympathies.
Both Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. have stated that if Johnson chooses the WTO rules crash out then there will be NO trade deal on offer because the Good Friday Agreement will have been compromised.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 15:37
  #4039 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by kkbuk View Post
Both Democrats and Republicans in the U.S. have stated that if Johnson chooses the WTO rules crash out then there will be NO trade deal on offer because the Good Friday Agreement will have been compromised.
Which part of the Belfast Agreement 1998, to give it its proper title, would have been compromised? Many keep brining this up but having read the agreement thoroughly, several times, I see nothing in it that would be 'compromised'.
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Old 18th Dec 2019, 15:41
  #4040 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
As the gearbox said to the differential. it's all a matter of opinion.
We will see whose opinion was correct before too long.
First question : Will BJ ask Parliament to ratify his WA on Friday ?
I must admit I have some doubts. He may be tempted to play some lousy trick to avoid taking the plunge.
It took a Julius Ceasar to cross the Rubicon. But who knows ?
And by the way, will Parliament ratify ?

Waiting with bated breath (I might be the only one in my area, nobody here's giving a fig)
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