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BREXIT

Old 8th Dec 2019, 09:59
  #3921 (permalink)  
 
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Will ORAC never get away from cutting and pasting other people's efforts? https://www.ft.com/content/61209e28-...0-cbae5495d92b
The present incumbent of No10 operates in the delusory confusion of education and intelligence. While he has, by repute, been expensively well educated, by demonstrated activity, he is totally lacking in intelligence. This is in no way surprising, since intelligence is innate and by reference to lineage, one can see the source of the problem!
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Old 8th Dec 2019, 10:07
  #3922 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Will ORAC never get away from cutting and pasting other people's efforts?
Perhaps her own efforts are just too disappointing.
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Old 8th Dec 2019, 16:58
  #3923 (permalink)  
 
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It's many many moons since I suffered compulsory latin classes, but with the help of Mr Google

Legatus est vir bonus peregre missus ad mentiendum rei publicae causa translates as
(An) Ambassador is a good man sent to lie abroad for the sake of the State

So now we can sleep soundly tonight knowing that a dead language can still have its uses ....
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Old 8th Dec 2019, 17:13
  #3924 (permalink)  
 
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Not really. Could easily just use a live language to say the same thing. But then, like the PM who sprinkles his speech with Greek and Latin, it would be harder to appear to be cleverer then your audience. Sir Humphrey used to do it to great effect in ‘Yes Minister’.
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Old 8th Dec 2019, 17:53
  #3925 (permalink)  
 
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The issue here is that Alexandra Hall Hall, a professional diplomat (nee liar) has made her resignation a political matter; this has nothing to do with principle as stated above.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 09:51
  #3926 (permalink)  
 
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If HQ's bile had any validity, one wouild suppose she would be welcomed by the Great Untruthful One himself as a soul-mate (or some other sort, dependent on appearance!) Unfortunately she appears to have principles which are either a problem or unknown to our present Government.
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 10:01
  #3927 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
If HQ's bile had any validity, one wouild suppose she would be welcomed by the Great Untruthful One himself as a soul-mate (or some other sort, dependent on appearance!) Unfortunately she appears to have principles which are either a problem or unknown to our present Government.
Hardly 'bile' Jack, more a case of clarifying the diplomats job description. For real bile one should perhaps look here:

The present incumbent of No10 operates in the delusory confusion of education and intelligence. While he has, by repute, been expensively well educated, by demonstrated activity, he is totally lacking in intelligence. This is in no way surprising, since intelligence is innate and by reference to lineage, one can see the source of the problem!

Good luck with the high blood pressure, ulcers and a presumed (on my part) addiction to Gaviscon*


*Other indigestion remedies are available
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 10:55
  #3928 (permalink)  
 
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Just 2 questions, HQ
1. Your 'assessment' of Ms Hall Hall's motives were made on what knowledge basis (of the lady herself)?
2. Given the frequent public performances of Johnson, Pere et Fils, which of my perceptions would you consider to be based on unreason?
PS - Nursey says my BP is entirely satisfactory for a cantankerous old git; is the product mentioned some form of brain food or a type of Viagra? - if so, neither needed, thank you.
and a presumed (on my part)
PPS - Since this is an aviation-related forum, those of us who have been involved for a while have a most useful mantra -"Never assume(presume) - CHECK!!"
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 11:26
  #3929 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
Just 2 questions, HQ
1. Your 'assessment' of Ms Hall Hall's motives were made on what knowledge basis (of the lady herself)?
2. Given the frequent public performances of Johnson, Pere et Fils, which of my perceptions would you consider to be based on unreason?
PS - Nursey says my BP is entirely satisfactory for a cantankerous old git; is the product mentioned some form of brain food or a type of Viagra? - if so, neither needed, thank you.
and a presumed (on my part)
PPS - Since this is an aviation-related forum, those of us who have been involved for a while have a most useful mantra -"Never assume(presume) - CHECK!!"
I appreciate your advice Jack re presumption, I shall treasure it, in fact. I'm impressed you obviously know Ms Hall Hall so well as to perceive her true motives. I made my assessment based on her profession. I'm further impressed that you have gallantly leapt to her defence. A true gentleman, definitely not a bilious and cantankerous old git.

However, I suspect as you failed to recognise the trade name of one of the better known indigestion remedies you are more senile than either of us expected, unless of course you are playing a game?

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Old 9th Dec 2019, 11:26
  #3930 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by deltahotel View Post
Not really. Could easily just use a live language to say the same thing.
Ah, but you overlook quidquid latine dictum sit altum sonatur at your peril. old fruit.

PDR
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 11:54
  #3931 (permalink)  
 
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Mmmmm. If you say so, which seems to be the PM’s approach, but it doesn’t really. (But I suspect you know that!).
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Old 9th Dec 2019, 13:51
  #3932 (permalink)  
 
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Tut, tut, HQ, your sarcasm is dripping!
No, I don't know Ms HH ... and neither do you, but ignorance didn't prevent you from making snide assertions that her motivation was political rather than principled. Such nastiness directed at random, without justification, shouldn't go unchallenged. Your own motives may well be as pure as the driven snow or less acceptable - I don't know but you are able to argue your case - Ms HH wasn't.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 16:42
  #3933 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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Interesting - suddenly the EU seems to want to keep the UK in and talking even after Brexit......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-boris-johnsonEU looks at extending Brexit transition period beyond 2020

EU leaders would take the initiative and request an extension to the transition period, keeping the UK under Brussels regulations beyond 2020, under a plan mooted for getting around Boris Johnson’s stated refusal to seek a delay. The move is being considered by EU officials as a way out of the problem posed by the short time available to negotiate a new relationship and the prime minister’s insistence that he will not seek an extension beyond 11 months......

The withdrawal agreement stipulates that the transition can be extended by “one or two years” but that this must be agreed before 1 July next year. It is recognised in Brussels that Johnson will find it politically impossible to seek an extension to the transition to allow all the issues to be agreed. On breaking his word by asking for a delay, Johnson would have to open negotiations on how much extra the UK would pay into the EU budget. Free movement of people would also continue.

Ursula von der Leyen, the European commission’s president, said that negotiating a future relationship in such a short timeframe would be very challenging. Speaking on Friday, at the end of a leaders’ summit in Brussels, she said the negotiations would instead have to prioritise key EU issues, such as the trade in goods and fisheries, and leave others for after 2020. Such a “sequencing” could leave arrangements for the UK’s financial services sector and the landing rights of British air carriers, among other issues, out of an initial deal.....

Instead, it is understood initial discussions have taken place in Brussels about the EU asking the British government for an extension, given the complexity of the talks. It is likely that the EU would also need to sweeten the offer of an extension by minimising the costs that the UK would face. Sources suggested that such a move might offer Johnson a better chance of gaining cabinet approval, and avoid a cliff-edge exit from the EU’s structures on 31 December 2020, including the imposition of tariffs.....

Some EU capitals were left frustrated by Von der Leyen’s comments about the need to sequence the talks, believing it risked antagonising the UK.

Mujtaba Rahman, a former European commission official and now managing director for Europe at Eurasia Group, a political risk research and consulting firm, said: “The EU side hasn’t fully agreed how best to handle phase two and the big internal debate in Europe is about prioritisation. The commission wants to prioritise talks – akin to how it favoured sequencing in phase one ‪– and start with the areas where there’s no fallback, such as the free-trade agreement, level playing field and governance.”

“But EU capitals... worry about pre-judging Johnson’s preferences and his ability to make difficult concessions if the things that UK wants aren’t on table at the outset, such as services.”
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 17:58
  #3934 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Interesting - suddenly the EU seems to want to keep the UK in and talking even after Brexit......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-boris-johnsonEU looks at extending Brexit transition period beyond 2020

EU leaders would take the initiative and request an extension to the transition period, keeping the UK under Brussels regulations beyond 2020, under a plan mooted for getting around Boris Johnson’s stated refusal to seek a delay. The move is being considered by EU officials as a way out of the problem posed by the short time available to negotiate a new relationship and the prime minister’s insistence that he will not seek an extension beyond 11 months......

The withdrawal agreement stipulates that the transition can be extended by “one or two years” but that this must be agreed before 1 July next year. It is recognised in Brussels that Johnson will find it politically impossible to seek an extension to the transition to allow all the issues to be agreed. On breaking his word by asking for a delay, Johnson would have to open negotiations on how much extra the UK would pay into the EU budget. Free movement of people would also continue.

Ursula von der Leyen, the European commission’s president, said that negotiating a future relationship in such a short timeframe would be very challenging. Speaking on Friday, at the end of a leaders’ summit in Brussels, she said the negotiations would instead have to prioritise key EU issues, such as the trade in goods and fisheries, and leave others for after 2020. Such a “sequencing” could leave arrangements for the UK’s financial services sector and the landing rights of British air carriers, among other issues, out of an initial deal.....

Instead, it is understood initial discussions have taken place in Brussels about the EU asking the British government for an extension, given the complexity of the talks. It is likely that the EU would also need to sweeten the offer of an extension by minimising the costs that the UK would face. Sources suggested that such a move might offer Johnson a better chance of gaining cabinet approval, and avoid a cliff-edge exit from the EU’s structures on 31 December 2020, including the imposition of tariffs.....

Some EU capitals were left frustrated by Von der Leyen’s comments about the need to sequence the talks, believing it risked antagonising the UK.

Mujtaba Rahman, a former European commission official and now managing director for Europe at Eurasia Group, a political risk research and consulting firm, said: “The EU side hasn’t fully agreed how best to handle phase two and the big internal debate in Europe is about prioritisation. The commission wants to prioritise talks – akin to how it favoured sequencing in phase one ‪– and start with the areas where there’s no fallback, such as the free-trade agreement, level playing field and governance.”

“But EU capitals... worry about pre-judging Johnson’s preferences and his ability to make difficult concessions if the things that UK wants aren’t on table at the outset, such as services.”
Which part of that says the "EU wants to keep the UK in" ?
They are saying that because the UK has got itself into a(nother) tight spot because of our constant delays, they are prepared to help us out with some more flexibility.

Ever since the referendum, the EU has made its own preparations and then held back patiently while the UK government tried to decide what it wanted to do. It seems they still prepared to give us even more time if we want it.

I'm just surprised that they have not told us to f off by now.
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 18:10
  #3935 (permalink)  
 
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I'm just surprised that they have not told us to f off by now.
Because, of course, the EU needs the UK much more than the UK needs the EU....simples!!
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 18:58
  #3936 (permalink)  
 
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Having persuaded their sophisticated Wetherspoons dwelling electorate to give them such a solid mandate it would be churlish for this government not to deliver in full on their Brexit promise. Therefore I expect them to leave, deal or no deal on December 31 2020 whatever state the negotiations are at. Whatever ensues from that, make no mistake, Boris owns that and all that goes with it. Bring it on!
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 19:10
  #3937 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Just another date. We voted to leave. Then we waited months before we said we would leave. Then we spent three years trying to agree to leave. Now we will spend a year trying to work how we will leave.

What have we been doing?
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 19:31
  #3938 (permalink)  
 
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RTÉ's Europe Editor, Tony Connelly looks at the Irish Protocol section of the Withdrawl Agreement.

What’s more, industry representatives say they have been forced to swallow an outcome they regard as worse than Theresa May’s UK-wide customs union, which was designed to be an overall*improvement*- from a unionist and business point of view - on the original Northern Ireland-specific backstop.
"So effectively, what we turned down in October 2018 as having real difficulties in terms of its workability," says [Stephen] Kelly, [chief executive of Manufacturing NI], "Boris [Johnson], in an effort to get Brexit done by 31 October, rolled over and accepted it".
"It’s important that people finally realise what these agreements mean," says a senior EU official. "The Brits really need to discuss them and debate them. The Protocol is very clearly*not*oven-ready.*It’s going to be complicated to get going."
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/...ide-irish-sea/

JAS
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 21:13
  #3939 (permalink)  
 
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"It’s important that people finally realise what these agreements mean," says a senior EU official. "The Brits really need to discuss them and debate them. The Protocol is very clearly*not*oven-ready.*It’s going to be complicated to get going."
They would say that, wouldn't they?
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Old 14th Dec 2019, 21:30
  #3940 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
They would say that, wouldn't they?
They mean it.
Unlike Boris Johnson who makes up his ideas on the spur of the moment. They don't buy his fantasies.

The EU lives in the real world. Boris as even his most ardent fan knows, does not.
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