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BREXIT

Old 15th Sep 2019, 15:27
  #2241 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
But is the observation wrong in relation to holidays ?

On my first long trip (3 wks) to the US camping in AZ (1990's) I chatted to US citizens at camping areas, the observation I found most amusing was this guy in his 50's finding out I had taken 3 weeks holidays all at once, he asked was I really rich because he now had 15 days holidays a year but it was only after 20 years at his company.

I shared coffee and some of their home made cakes with the family on a nice evening as they quizzed me on Europe and they were really shocked I had 25 days holidays a year not including 8 public holidays. They assummed I must run the company and think they struggled to believe it was normal across EU.

US tourists are often easy to spot on holidays (nope not the sandals and white socks ), it is just they are in a rush to cover as much ground as possible and see as much as possible in as short a time as possible, not as clickyclicky on cameras as the Japanese but US do always seeking the restrooms.

Guess I always puzzle when I see business people going on record as expressing openly their christian faith and charitable giving, but this doesn't include looking after their employees, not all but enough to wonder at their hypocrisy.
That’s quite the range of verbal garbage aimed at the US. From charitable giving to vacation time to bathroom usage rates. You and Dre seem to have an all encompassing agenda when it comes to the US.


Your field observations border on anecdotal. If that’s the bar, then my experience is just as valid. I plan my year to never be more than 6-8 weeks from a vacation, that with a large block taken in summer. I consider myself well rested by any reasonable standard.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 15:54
  #2242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
On this I would, any company who starts tearing up employment law and reducing holidays will find itself a pariah.
I'd say Britain has no qualms about finding itself a pariah ;-)

Serious now, if the social shackles are not due to the EU, what EU shackles exactly do you hope to get free from with Brexit ?
Not the euro obviously, not employment laws, not the fisheries due to UNCLOS, finally what ?
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 17:00
  #2243 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TURIN View Post
I didn't write this, and I haven't fact checked all the claims.
If it's been posted before then I've missed it. Apologies.
...………………………………………………………………………………………..
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So much rubbish in that post it's difficult to know where to start.

We can charge tariffs on some products but not others. For example we could choose not to charge them on bananas, so they wouldn't be extortionately expensive. No danger there of putting our banana producers out of work.

The point about article 24 of GATT is that it kicks in as soon as we start working towards a trade deal, so even a deal with the EU did take years to finalise, we won't have to wait that long to lift tariffs.

Once out of the EU we will only have to meet EU rules for products we sell into the EU, just as we currently have to meet Brazilian rules for things we sell to Brazil, but only for those products. At the moment all firms have to follow EU regulations even if they don't export anything anywhere.

We will not need to check goods coming in any more than we do now. For one thing nothing is going to come across from the EU that doesn't already, for another, even when standards differ this isn't checked at the port. Do you really think that when a shipload of Chinese gadgets arrive at a UK port customs inspect them all individually?

There is nothing to stop us recruiting from the EU once we've left. It may come as a shock to you but people from outside the EU can already come here, I work (in the UK) with Americans Indians and an Iranian. The country that has the largest number of UK expats living and working there is Australia. Not being in the EU doesn't stop them recruiting from the UK.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 17:32
  #2244 (permalink)  
 
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Dr Jekyll,

According to your post, once you leave the EU, everything will be the same, except that firms that have to produce according to EU regulations, will be able to follow (I suppose) less stringent regulations. Supposing your sources are reliable, of course.
If nothing else changes, where is the "control" that's supposed to be regained ? Control on goods ? Control on those foreigners, etc. ?


Isn't everyone dreaming of his own personal Brexit ? Why would your opinion be more reliable than that of your own government ?
Like some here inquired, are you a logistics expert ? Or a renowned specialist in banana import ?

Last edited by Fly Aiprt; 15th Sep 2019 at 22:01.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 17:37
  #2245 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Dr Jekyll,

According to your post, once you leave the EU, everything will be the same, except that firms that have to produce according to EU regulations, will be able to follow (I suppose) less stringent regulations. Supposing your sources are reliable, of course.
If nothing else changes, where is the "control" that's supposed to be regained ? Control on goods ? Control on those foreigners, etc. ?


Isn't everyone dreaming of his own personal Brexit ? Why would your opinion be more reliable than that of your own government ?
Like some here inquired, are you a logistics expert ? Or a renown specialist in banana import ?
I didn't say everything would be the same. The advantage of leaving the EU is that we don't need to follow EU regulations for things that aren't going to the EU, and we will be able to cut or abolish tariffs where it suits us instead of having tariffs to protect producers of things we don't make in the UK.

Tell me where I'm wrong.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 17:46
  #2246 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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The world has gone mad.

After forcing through an Act designed to ensure that there is an extension if the PM does not bring back a deal - the remainers are now ringing the alarm bells and insisting...... under no circumstances should MPs vote for any deal the PM brings back.........

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...cy-since-1939/

https://waitingfortax.com/2019/09/15...-the-benn-act/
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 17:50
  #2247 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr Jekyll View Post
Tell me where I'm wrong.
What about that obligation to follow EU regulations even for products that go elsewhere ?
You sure of that ?
Or you just imagine/hope/suppose ?
Because when producing an appliance for the US market, where do you see you had to provide CE marking, 50Hz/220V capabilities etc. ?
Not sure you're wrong, but are you sure you're right ?

Last edited by Fly Aiprt; 15th Sep 2019 at 18:01.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 17:54
  #2248 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Back at your hatred of the US again. Did a yank steal your boy/girl friend to cause this consuming hatred?

Btw, I cant say I know of anyone anyonwgo brags about how much they work. If anything, airline folks brag about how many countries they have visited on vacay.

But you know better from far, far away.
Is it, or is it not true that the USA does not mandate minimum annual leave?

My understanding was always that leave entitlement until you've been with a company a good few years is pitifully small. Academia is I understand it, from knowledge of relatives living and working in the USA a rather different kettle of fish.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 18:01
  #2249 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
The world has gone mad.


Hahaha, MP's decisions are getting too complicated for themselves^^!
BTW, please keep "the rest of the world" out of the shenanigans taking place on the wrong side of the Channel ;-)
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 18:15
  #2250 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
What about that obligation to follow EU regulations even for products that go elsewhere ?
You sure of that ?
Or you just imagine/hope/suppose ?
Because when producing an appliance for the US market, where do you see you had to provide CE marking, 50Hz/220V capabilities etc. ?
Not sure you're wrong, but are you sure you're right ?
I didn't the say EU has a regulation demanding CE marking for appliances for the US. What I said was that we have to follow EU regulations whether we export or not. A few months back I tried to buy a new fluorescent light tube for my garage, apparently the model I needed has been made illegal by the EU. Not illegal to export, illegal full stop. UK employers are subject to the EU working time directive, even those who don't export anywhere. We even have EU restrictions on the power of vacuum cleaners.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 18:16
  #2251 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dr Jekyll View Post
I didn't say everything would be the same. The advantage of leaving the EU is that we don't need to follow EU regulations for things that aren't going to the EU, and we will be able to cut or abolish tariffs where it suits us instead of having tariffs to protect producers of things we don't make in the UK.

Tell me where I'm wrong.
So a UK manufacturer will be free to make a version of his product to EU standards for export to the EU, and a different presumably lower quality version of the same product for sale in the UK.

What sort of dream world is this?
​​​​Will it be economic to make two versions?
Will we have a whole new layer of lower British Standards written, and a separate regime to test/approve them?
Will the Made in Britain implication of quality now have the opposite meaning?

Just another area where we will still effectively be 'controlled' by the EU but no longer have any influence on setting those controls.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 18:27
  #2252 (permalink)  
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Fly, my take is that where a company produces goods for say EU and another country it would be uneconomic to produce some of the goods to a lower standard just because you could.

If they produced goods for a wholly different market, say US, then yes, they would need two compliant lines.

I think in only the conflict between EU rules and UK domestic market might there be an advantage in not following EU regulations. Two items spring to mind - maximum power for vacuum cleaners and the power limit for kettles.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 18:35
  #2253 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
So a UK manufacturer will be free to make a version of his product to EU standards for export to the EU, and a different presumably lower quality version of the same product for sale in the UK.

What sort of dream world is this?
​​​​Will it be economic to make two versions?
Will we have a whole new layer of lower British Standards written, and a separate regime to test/approve them?
Will the Made in Britain implication of quality now have the opposite meaning?

Just another area where we will still effectively be 'controlled' by the EU but no longer have any influence on setting those controls.
We already make different versions for different markets. We even make LHD cars for the EU and RHD for the UK, and LHD cars for the US that meet US standards.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 19:09
  #2254 (permalink)  
 
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In my world of engineering, environmental, mechanical and electrical, we have to use EU regulations. This is because, we the UK, via UK professional bodies, proposed, consulted on and assisted in the creation of these EU regulations with our partner organisations in the EU. Nothing was forced on us by the EU against our will. It was a collaborative effort for the good of all.

I can't think of any regulations that were forced on us by the EU. If something is against 'EU law' it is very likely because we, the UK, had a say in why something should be illegal in the EU.

I have been part of consultation processes on EU directives which in turn became EU regulations for all member states, nobody was forced, hoodwinked, bribed or ripped off.

EU restrictions on vacuum cleaners, kettles etc were all part of the UK agreed approach to reducing emissions and improving energy efficiency. All approved and endorsed by the UK. Nobody forced us.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 19:45
  #2255 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Is it, or is it not true that the USA does not mandate minimum annual leave?

My understanding was always that leave entitlement until you've been with a company a good few years is pitifully small. Academia is I understand it, from knowledge of relatives living and working in the USA a rather different kettle of fish.
Standby for someone not often seen in this google intelligentsia world....I don’t know.


What I do know is competitive vacation is a big part of the decision making process when selecting an employer.

Pitifully small is a subjective number. In a nation/company that gets one more day off than yours, they may look at yours and say pitiful.




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Old 15th Sep 2019, 19:51
  #2256 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
In my world of engineering, environmental, mechanical and electrical...…..

EU restrictions on vacuum cleaners, kettles etc were all part of the UK agreed approach to reducing emissions and improving energy efficiency. All approved and endorsed by the UK. Nobody forced us.
Then you will know that the amount of energy required to boil a litre of water is the same regardless of the wattage of the kettle. It just takes longer with a less powerful kettle. As the kettle will be warmer for longer, the increased thermal losses actually mean that a EU compliant kettle is less efficient. Madness !


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Old 15th Sep 2019, 20:00
  #2257 (permalink)  
 
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Plus the fact you have to flush an EU toilet twice and take two runs with the vacuum cleaner to clear the dirt.

It doesn't worry EU politicians; their expenses pay for somebody to clean the toilets and vacuum the carpets.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 20:10
  #2258 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post

What I do know is competitive vacation is a big part of the decision making process when selecting an employer
That leave entitlement is comparatively low in the US (compared to Western Peer countries) suggests that in the absence of a regulatory minimum, the employee will be worse off: Not really an indicator of market negotiation on equal terms. That people are per se free to sell their labour is a sell that you don’t have to buy...
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 20:13
  #2259 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by B Fraser View Post
Then you will know that the amount of energy required to boil a litre of water is the same regardless of the wattage of the kettle. It just takes longer with a less powerful kettle. As the kettle will be warmer for longer, the increased thermal losses actually mean that a EU compliant kettle is less efficient. Madness !
Depends what you mean by 'warmer for longer'.
The rate of heat loss is proportional to the temperature difference between the water and ambient.
The lower power kettle loses heat for longer, but at a lower rate because the water is less hot.
​​​​​​
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 20:18
  #2260 (permalink)  
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But both kettles will reach the same temperature. The lower wattage kettle will take longer to get there but will lose heat over a longer period.
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