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BREXIT

Old 14th Sep 2019, 15:29
  #2221 (permalink)  
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https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...sal-to-the-eu/

Why the UK hasn’t presented any specific, backstop proposal to the EU

The EU side regularly points out that the UK government hasn’t presented any detailed proposals on what it wants to replace the backstop with. At a Cabinet committee meeting this week, the Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay set about explaining to ministerial colleagues why this was. As I report in The Sun this morning, He told the Committee that the EU had set three tests for any new proposal. First, it must avoid any infrastructure on the border that would be incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement. Second, it must protect the integrity of the EU’s single market. Third, it mustn’t involve any checks on the island of Ireland.

Barclay said that the UK could meet the first two of these tests, but not the third. He said that there was no point in presenting any detailed proposals until the EU shifted on the question of checks. One government source explains that if the UK did the ‘EU would nuke the proposals and we would be in chaos’. So, the challenge for Boris Johnson is to get the EU to move on this third point. His Monday meeting with Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker gives Boris Johnson a chance to lobby him on this very issue.

With his term as Commission President due to end on October 31, Juncker will be keen to resolve Brexit before he goes. I also understand that several EU governments, including France’s, are now apprehensive about the possibility of a second referendum. They believe it would be bad for the EU for the UK to stay in given how contested our membership now is.

The EU, though, will not abandon Ireland. This means that whatever proposal Boris Johnson comes up with will have to be something that Leo Varadkar is prepared to accept. The first meeting between the two men has given Downing Street some hope that they can find something that works for Dublin, them and the DUP. The DUP’s willingness to entertain Northern Ireland continuing to follow EU rules on agriculture has opened the door to further discussions.

If parliament had not tied Boris Johnson’s hands, he could have seen if the risk of no-deal would have pushed Dublin and the EU to compromise on the checks front. But he is now negotiating with a weakened hand.

For this and other reasons, the odds are still against a deal. But there is a greater chance of one than there was a week ago.


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Old 14th Sep 2019, 18:35
  #2222 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Why the UK hasn’t presented any specific, backstop proposal to the EU
...
Barclay said that the UK could meet the first two of these tests, but not the third. He said that there was no point in presenting any detailed proposals until the EU shifted on the question of checks. One government source explains that if the UK did the ‘EU would nuke the proposals and we would be in chaos’.
...
So much for this Government having a miracle solution to avoid the Backstop and still have no deal...
And finally a good news : Britain is not yet in chaos !

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Old 14th Sep 2019, 18:54
  #2223 (permalink)  
 
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Who will win with a no deal Brexit, and how? Why are the ERG hell bent on no deal ?
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 19:58
  #2224 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Echo Romeo View Post
Who will win with a no deal Brexit, and how? Why are the ERG hell bent on no deal ?
Cheaper night out at Wetherspoons. JRM etc all well known for frequenting these establishments and letting their hair down on the pub quiz machines.

Last edited by Grayfly; 14th Sep 2019 at 21:14.
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 20:02
  #2225 (permalink)  
 
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Why are the ERG hell bent on no deal ?
Follow the money and read up on ATAD

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/03/13/t...s-from-brexit/

If anyone seriously still believes many in the ERG and their fellow travellers had any interest at all in doing what was best for the British people as a whole then I have a bridge I can sell them.

Last edited by wiggy; 14th Sep 2019 at 22:16.
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 22:34
  #2226 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
Follow the money and read up on ATAD
Interesting...
So after all, it's not a political - or near religious - decision, but a trick from those guys to earn money.
And now the man in the street still believes there is a rationale for leaving...


While this elite group have profited from the last three years of economic uncertainty, Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of England, estimated that real household incomes have dropped by almost £1,000 since the Brexit vote. The Centre for Economic Performance at the London School of Economics forecast that the average household could lose between £2,519 to £5,573 per year from real incomes over the next 15 years.
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Old 14th Sep 2019, 23:17
  #2227 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Interesting...
So after all, it's not a political - or near religious - decision, but a trick from those guys to earn money.
And now the man in the street still believes there is a rationale for leaving...
Do you use the expression “person ‘A’ wrote the book on....” in France? Because Jacob Reese Mogg’s father really did write a book on how to make millions from natural and economic catastrophes. It’s called disaster capitalism and you can bet JRM stands to make a pretty penny from a hard Brexit.

And that walking caricature of a Wetherspoons owner has spoken of his fury at EU rules forcing him to give his lowly waiting and bar staff 20 days annual leave a year when their peers in the US only get 10.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 00:23
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Interesting...
So after all, it's not a political - or near religious - decision..


Never has been, as far as the real movers and shakers on the leave side are concerned it has always been about money ..as Una Due Tfc has correctly pointed out one of the ERGs prime mover's father's wrote the book on disaster capitalism. Chuck into the mix the EU's intent to clamp down on tax avoidance and you have one heck of a motive for some in the the UK wanting to get the country out of the EU pronto...certainly before 1st Jan 2020.....I do think for many others leaving by way of a hard Brexit actually has become a near religious decision..it's almost a cult. ... to them I say I still have that bridge...
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 00:40
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc View Post

Jacob Reese Mogg’s father really did write a book on how to make millions from natural and economic catastrophes. It’s called disaster capitalism and you can bet JRM stands to make a pretty penny from a hard Brexit.
Now this is an interesting vision of the whole process.
It was provoked by some politicians and financiers, then taken over by the xenophobic ignorant mob in Britain.
Sends shivers down your spine...

An article on the father's book.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...s-brexit-plans


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Old 15th Sep 2019, 02:50
  #2230 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Una Due Tfc View Post
And that walking caricature of a Wetherspoons owner has spoken of his fury at EU rules forcing him to give his lowly waiting and bar staff 20 days annual leave a year when their peers in the US only get 10.
Actually in the United States not a single day of annual leave is mandated in legislation. It’s the only developed country without a minimum paid annual leave requirement, whereas the European peers mandate 20-35. It’s totally at the discretion of your employer, and they can alter their policies around it at any time. Even given annual leave there’s something strange about American work culture that sees employees reluctanct to take any leave given, those with the supposedly “strongest” work ethic brag about how little leave they take and how long they work.

This is in additional to expensive private sector health insurance rather than more efficient universal healthcare, no paid maternal leave, no mandated minimum sick leave, crippling lifelong higher education debt...

So when Boris/Nigel/JRM et al talk about “freeing ourselves from the shackles of the EU” they are talking about freeing their big business owner friends from having to provide workers with a decent quality of life. They look at the American model with envy.

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Old 15th Sep 2019, 06:12
  #2231 (permalink)  
 
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Back at your hatred of the US again. Did a yank steal your boy/girl friend to cause this consuming hatred?

Btw, I cant say I know of anyone anyonwgo brags about how much they work. If anything, airline folks brag about how many countries they have visited on vacay.

But you know better from far, far away.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 06:41
  #2232 (permalink)  
 
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In Oz (and I suspect elsewhere) there is always a few who brag about the hours that they put in and how onerous that is.
It's a tool with which they hope to cement their importance within an organisation.
There are two types who do this.

The first is the type who are really working long and onerous hours. For them, the bragging seldom lasts very long.

The second group are those, frequently in elevated positions, who genuinely think that their meagre effort is long and onerous despite observation to the contrary.
For this group the bragging seldom stops.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 07:17
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People I know in the US say they get bored very quickly when they are not at work.

IG
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 10:28
  #2234 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Imagegear View Post
People I know in the US say they get bored very quickly when they are not at work.

IG
The expression "Go get a life" comes to mind.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 11:24
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Back at your hatred of the US again. Did a yank steal your boy/girl friend to cause this consuming hatred
Back with the personal insults I see. I don’t hate the US, I pity your huge work/life imbalance. I really hope you eventually elect a government that institutes good social policies and you can enjoy the good work life balance that all other first world nations enjoy.

Btw, I cant say I know of anyone anyonwgo brags about how much they work. If anything, airline folks brag about how many countries they have visited on vacay.

But you know better from far, far away.
Well I know airlines in my country and a lot of others offer 42 days paid annual leave from the day one.

I’ve seen a lot of US pilot contracts with annual leave accrual of 7 days in the first year, 14 days til the 6th year and 21 days til the 14th year.

Overall that’s almost an extra full year of paid leave for non-US workers after 14 years of employment. So while US pilots might be bragging about the countries they visit proportionally non-US pilots will have more opportunity to visit countries with their extra time off. Again I don’t hate Americans for this, I wish you guys had the same leave policies as other nations.

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Old 15th Sep 2019, 13:43
  #2236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by West Coast View Post
Back at your hatred of the US again. Did a yank steal your boy/girl friend to cause this consuming hatred?

Btw, I cant say I know of anyone anyonwgo brags about how much they work. If anything, airline folks brag about how many countries they have visited on vacay.

But you know better from far, far away.
But is the observation wrong in relation to holidays ?

On my first long trip (3 wks) to the US camping in AZ (1990's) I chatted to US citizens at camping areas, the observation I found most amusing was this guy in his 50's finding out I had taken 3 weeks holidays all at once, he asked was I really rich because he now had 15 days holidays a year but it was only after 20 years at his company.

I shared coffee and some of their home made cakes with the family on a nice evening as they quizzed me on Europe and they were really shocked I had 25 days holidays a year not including 8 public holidays. They assummed I must run the company and think they struggled to believe it was normal across EU.

US tourists are often easy to spot on holidays (nope not the sandals and white socks ), it is just they are in a rush to cover as much ground as possible and see as much as possible in as short a time as possible, not as clickyclicky on cameras as the Japanese but US do always seeking the restrooms.

Guess I always puzzle when I see business people going on record as expressing openly their christian faith and charitable giving, but this doesn't include looking after their employees, not all but enough to wonder at their hypocrisy.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 13:50
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
US tourists are often easy to spot on holidays (nope not the sandals and white socks )
Socken mit Sandalen, that's the Germans^^!
The good news is, when the UK is freed from the EU shackles, employers will be able to offer as many days off as they see fit.

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Old 15th Sep 2019, 14:19
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
Socken mit Sandalen, that's the Germans^^!
The good news is, when the UK is freed from the EU shackles, employers will be able to offer as many days off as they see fit.
There will be no reduction in the minimum number of days off, Unions have made it quite clear than anybody who goes down the road will pay for it at the ballot box and on the streets. A consumer company doing it will find its sales drop off very quickly.

Additionally bosses may want to do it BUT would require new contracts for everyone, including themselves and try have a boss tell his family that instead of the 2 weeks in Spain, US etc they enjoy it is limited to a week.

Tory right may want to sell it but voters will have different ideas when it affects them.
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 14:34
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
There will be no reduction in the minimum number of days off, Unions have made it quite clear than anybody who goes down the road will pay for it at the ballot box and on the streets.
I would not rely on that.
Britain is going down the Brexit road, and yet not much appears a the ballot box, does it ?
The British man in the street seems ready to swallow anything that is thrown at him, provided it is along the "regain control", "the bullying EU" and "foreign drug dealers" lines.
With some clever words about "Eu's fault", "just some limited inconvenience", no doubt your unions and workers will accept to get roulés dans la farine ;-)

*
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Old 15th Sep 2019, 14:54
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Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt View Post
I would not rely on that.
Britain is going down the Brexit road, and yet not much appears a the ballot box, does it ?
The British man in the street seems ready to swallow anything that is thrown at him, provided it is along the "regain control", "the bullying EU" and "foreign drug dealers" lines.
With some clever words about "Eu's fault", "just some limited inconvenience", no doubt your unions and workers will accept to get roulés dans la farine ;-)
*
On this I would, any company who starts tearing up employment law and reducing holidays will find itself a pariah. Social media pressure will hit very quickly and that is worse than a strike because once it gets out there then there is zero agenda control.

Imagine JD Wethers did it, all needs is punters boycotting for 2 weeks and watch them cave in. People understand thin end of the wedge idea and if don't stand for it then your holidays next plus the joy is 1 bought share gets you into an AGM.* Many people targeting their pension savings company to vote against management who do this would all fall into this. Cedric The Pig still give Centrica boss nightmares.
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