Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Social > Jet Blast
Reload this Page >

No More Gas

Jet Blast Topics that don't fit the other forums. Rules of Engagement apply.

No More Gas

Old 14th Mar 2019, 02:40
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 415
No More Gas

Why is it Phillip Hamond announcing the British Government will not allow gas heaters after 2025? And while we are talking about it, why the panic saying (Daily Wail) that it will cost an extra 5,000 pounds per house. I would have thought replacing a gas boiler, all the pipe work and all the radiators with simple electric base boards will actually save installation cost.
Whether the cost of electricity will bankrupt home owners is another matter and anyway why the urgency, or even the sense, for getting rid of gas?
ChrisVJ is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 04:12
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 67
Posts: 491
NEW homes - after 2025
WingNut60 is online now  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 05:13
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: There and here
Posts: 1,659
Whether the cost of electricity will bankrupt home owners is another matter and anyway why the urgency, or even the sense, for getting rid of gas?
Where is all the power going to come from ????? Nuclear power is unpopular, wind/wave etc not scaleable, at present electrical energy is imported from France through the grace of their atomic power network, but might be tricky after Brexit. As to gas, now that the North Sea fields are running down, only Russia has a continual supply and the LNG from Qatar is tricky due to the animosity from the Saudi's. All of these would register as a risk to the UK, so to reduce our exposure would make sense, but unless there's a viable new power source waiting in the wings that is unknown to the masses, it's all a mystery to me.
SpringHeeledJack is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 07:52
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 1,814
but unless there's a viable new power source waiting in the wings
Shale gas fracking - hundreds of years supply right under our feet in northern England.

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/new...ston-new-road/
ETOPS is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 07:55
  #5 (permalink)  
Resident insomniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N54 58 34 W02 01 21
Age: 75
Posts: 1,859
When my father-in-law bought his 'dream home' - a very large three-story early-17th century 'farmhouse' with no electricity - he installed electric storage heaters, which required three-phase power (he was a senior manager for the regional electricity board).
This 'stop-gap' worked well to allow early occupation.
In time, he replaced these by conventional gas-fired radiators.
G-CPTN is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:03
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: There and here
Posts: 1,659
Shale gas fracking - hundreds of years supply right under our feet in northern England.
Politically and environmentally sensitive, only need will outweigh those factors.
SpringHeeledJack is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:43
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Great Britain
Posts: 3
Yep, the need to supply services to the all the new homes which themselves are needed to house immigrants and their offspring*
All in compliance with the imbecilic endless growth mantra

*Before the professionaly offended crew go off on one, this comment simply states a fact (remember those), the indigenous population of Britain is not reproducing at a rate to even replace itself, all population growth is due immigration and offspring of immigrants
Hyperdark is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 09:58
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 15,778
Ironic isnt it, knock down perfectly serviceable coal powered power stations in favour of cleaner gas powered power stations to produce the electricity to heat the houses, that will not be allowed to burn gas themselves. Reducing the heating fuel available in properties will increase the demand on the already struggling electrical generating grid meaning more gas powered stations will be needed. Go figure.
NutLoose is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 10:03
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 18
So if gas heaters are to be banned presumably electricity will be used to heat new houses. But 50% of our electricity is produced by gas fired power stations. Iím confused!
Airstripflyer is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 11:00
  #10 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,569
Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
I would have thought replacing a gas boiler, all the pipe work and all the radiators with simple electric base boards will actually save installation cost.
?
In addition to the savings in building the house there will be a massive saving in extending the gas network to new estates. Where 'mains gas' has been a significant selling point for home owners and big builders alike, I can see the big builders jumping earlier 'selling future home's today.

There will also be unforeseen consequences over time. While there will still be a need for plumbers the highly trained gas-safe plumber will die out. Who is going to go down the expensive gas-safe route of a dying trade?

There will probably be a reduction in the number of proper copper plumbers too.

But is direct electric the only way?

Could a wet system be fun using heat pumps and electric? As the eco home will probably have solar will the running costs be that high? There is also oil-fired to consider.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 11:09
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dorset UK
Age: 66
Posts: 970
On radio 4 someone was saying that Ground Source Heat Pumps were the way forward. I wouldn't think the installation costs at build would be very high as lots of hole digging goes on anyway.
I think they use about 25% of the power compared to electrically heated homes.

Thread drift:- Why aren't all new buildings (houses, offices and factories) required to have solar panels on the roof? It seems common sense to me if we are supposed to be getting greener.
dixi188 is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 11:31
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 72
Posts: 3,695
Like millions of people in this country who live in rural areas I have never had mains gas. I am 100% electric, with economy 7, which as a bonus allows me to run my dishwasher, washing machine and tumble drier overnight on cheap electricity. Isn't it expensive I am asked? Well yes, but my monthly bill is my only fuel expense. I don't have to pay to have a boiler serviced every year, nor replace it at considerable expense every few years (storage radiators appear to last forever!). Finally, I have never returned home to find a large pile of rubble where my house once stood - small chance, admittedly, but it does happen.
Tankertrashnav is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 12:46
  #13 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 12,147
Why aren't all new buildings (houses, offices and factories) required to have solar panels on the roof? It seems common sense to me if we are supposed to be getting greener.
Why do houses have a roof with solar panels on top? Why not mandate that in future, roof tiles ARE solar panels?
ShyTorque is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 12:46
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Darkest Surrey
Posts: 5,794
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Ironic isnt it, knock down perfectly serviceable coal powered power stations in favour of cleaner gas powered power stations to produce the electricity to heat the houses, that will not be allowed to burn gas themselves. Reducing the heating fuel available in properties will increase the demand on the already struggling electrical generating grid meaning more gas powered stations will be needed. Go figure.
I gas power station is way more efficients and less costly than 100,000 people burning gas.
racedo is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 12:46
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: No longer in Jurassic Park eating Toblerone....
Posts: 2,652
dixi188 don't confuse foundations with laying a ground source loop which can be up to 200m of 40mm pipework to bury in your garden. Not necessarily hugely expensive but does require a large garden. alternatively you can do a borehole (probably planning permission required) and that gets expensive. Also the above ground units are currently selling for around £14K compared to an equivalent gas boiler for around £3k (Vaillant). An air source heat pump is an alternative but please mount it where your neighbour can't hear it on a calm cold winter's night when the sound travels.....

It doesn't have a direct cost benefit to the builder/developer to fit PV panels. Also the technology is advancing so rapidly that panels fitted 5 years ago are far less efficient than current units so people are reluctant to commit the capital to fit them.
LowNSlow is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 14:17
  #16 (permalink)  
Just call me Rotty
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Rotty's Bar and Grill (@RJAF) Shinshu JP
Posts: 42
Here in Japan the push has been towards 'All Electric' for a while now... I dunna like it. For one thing... it puts all your energy eggs in one proverbial basket. Electric goes out? Ya got nothin', gonna get cold and hungry pretty quick. Any major infrastructure failure and there's bound to be lots of misery.

Building this place I wanted options. Gas, a several weeks supply, which is stored in a tank outside and thus piped only to the house. Electric of course, but I have also designed and built a solar collection and storage system, to supplement the grid juice and for outages. At first this caused the neighbors to ask why the shack was still lit up bright while they were finding their candles...

The stove/oven works fine at all times, it's never even heard of electricity. Same for the kitchen boiler, the ignition is battery-powered. The main boiler, refrigerator and freezer switch to reserve power in case of a mains failure, and further to a backup generator if the outage is extended (which also maintains the battery bank subsystem if the sun can't keep up for some reason).

Heat requires neither electricity nor gas, and offers additional provision for cooking.

So, five sources of power, one of which is free. And although it might sound complicated, it's all actually quite simple, and very efficient.
rotated is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 17:05
  #17 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 76
Posts: 16,569
Originally Posted by LowNSlow View Post
. An air source heat pump is an alternative but please mount it where your neighbour can't hear it on a calm cold winter's night when the sound travels.....
Our neighbour had one , he didn't ask us. The gap between our houses was 8 feet and it was adjacent to our bedroom. Mrs PN, who claims ears like a bat, never heard a thing.
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 19:11
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,553
What happens when you have a lingering high pressure system over the UK in the middle of January and everybody wants to heat their houses and charge up their electric cars?
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 20:19
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: UkK
Posts: 43
I'm just looking at replacing our aging E-Type floor mounted boiler (35 years old or so!) and an air source heat pump is one option used alongside wet underfloor heating. The COP is about 4:1 and with solar PV this could negate some of the running costs. The cost of the ASHP isn't cheap though so possible where the £5k figure is coming from and you need a tank.
BirdmanBerry is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2019, 20:45
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 415
The latest home boilers and furnaces are about 95% efficient. I can not imagine that burning gas to create steam, putting the steam through a turbine, transmitting the resulting electricity through the lines (there is quite a loss in high tension cables) and the subsequent transforming to household voltage comes anywhere near 95% efficiency. True, once in the house electricity is pretty well 100% efficient for heating purposes.

House we built in Whistler, the furnace (hot air) and two big hot water heaters cost me about eight thousand dollars including installation. The guy next door put in a deep ground loop and it cost him twenty five thousand. (But his also did Air Con. That would have cost me another two thousand but wasn't necessary in that location.
ChrisVJ is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.