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Anti Vaxxers

Old 9th Mar 2019, 10:14
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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I don't "like" things to be one sided, I like things to be factual and supported by actual, controlled, verifiable evidence, whether they agree with my initial opinions or not. That is how we learn and advance. A result is a result whether it supports or disproves a particular theory or idea.
Replace "Wakefield" with a pharmaceutical company name, you'd be all.over it.

Wakefield is mentioned a lot because he deliberately falsified his research findings, among other things. Earlier in this thread I posted a link to the full General Medical Coumcil report detailing their findings and why he was struck off and his research debunked. It's a very thorough report running to 140+ pages, the investigation being carried out by medical professionals over several years, gathering verifiable evidence.

Rather than, say, reading a magazine article.

If it is proven that any vaccine causes autism, or if my opinion on the MMR jab is proven wrong, then great! We then have actual evidence and we can take action, drugs can be withdrawn etc.


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Last edited by Blues&twos; 9th Mar 2019 at 10:25.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 10:21
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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as to the article i posted, it was the first of many by a vast array of authors that discredit him
Of course there is no shortage of people willing to discredit people like Hadley, but was the one you posted typical of them? Ask yourself why people like Hadley subject themselves to all this? What is their motive?

Anyway, I don’t want to give the impression that I am a fan of his, or his ideas - I don’t know much about him. What I’m attempting to do, is open peoples minds up to accepting that there just might be something to their side of the argument. I tend to believe there is a lot that we’re happily going along with that we shouldn’t be. And incredibly, trying to sell this point I somehow feel like a holocaust denier!

VaxTruth.org | Vaccine Ingredients ? A Comprehensive Guide
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 10:34
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Bloody hell, Stan, have you read the first couple of pages of that link?
"Megan", the author, quotes FDA max daily value for aluminium intake 'over a prolonged period' and then complains that vaccines containing aluminium - given once, not over a prolonged period - contain greater quantities. Also seems to ignore that these vaccines are FDA approved. Either the FDA is a trusted source or not, she can't have it both ways.

Not an article with any credibility.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 11:11
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Whatever way you try to twist and turn it pro deathers have blood on their hands.

Even if any vaccine causes autism, which it doesnít, ask any parent that has lost a child to a vaccine preventable disease ďwould you rather have a dead child or a child with autismĒ.

Thats as as simple as it gets.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 12:13
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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,
Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
You know how professional pilots get annoyed and possibly insulted, when someone whose only flying experience is via youtube, posts videos of imaginary near misses or go arounds and starts telling the professionals where they are going wrong? That's somewhat how I feel when stuff like that is posted. I try to be polite and constructive, but then I think life is too short and its not my responsibility.
I know exactly what you mean.

I know how it feels to join a new company that professes to be top quality, very professional. Yet the reality I found was very different, the reality on the line was what I would call ‘gash’. Very different to the airlines I had previously worked for, my reality was very different to the perception! I have always been someone who wasn’t afraid of speaking up when I thought something needed saying. At a meeting of the companies pilots, management, including the top people at a nice hotel venue, I listened to them deluding themselves one by one, saying how great everything looked!

I asked if I might say something. I felt like a leper as I described to a silent audience some of the things I had experienced, or knew about from colleagues. This included one of them turning up for one of his early flights to find the Captain he was rostered with so drunk that he refused to fly with him and ordered him to go back to his hotel. (Two Captain bizjet operation) The room was silent, with only one other pilot expressing support. It was harsh, but deservedly so in my opinion. How could they possibly ask really big money for what I saw as a falsehood. They were all deluding themselves!

The big boss, I can’t remember his title, but I think he was based in America or Canada, took me quickly outside and thanked me for my honesty and that he’d look into my allegations, but I got the impression that he’d rather I’d never been hired and would just disappear!

I resigned shortly afterward. I refused to pay my bond as I’d specifically asked about standards at my interview, and was assured that they were seeking the highest possible. Yeah right! Lesson learned the hard way. I scuttled back to EasyJet, where at least the standards inside the cockpit were good.

So what does that prove, if anything? It showed me that people within my own safety conscious industry were more than willing to keep quiet and take the money. So when there is huge money at stake, as there is with vaccines, I’m willing to believe that anything’s possible.

So I don’t hold all ‘professionals’ in as high regard as I might. Some are special individuals, like the surgeon that I saw this week in a programme about a drug that was being tested in a trial on people with Parkinson’s disease. It was a very emotional programme. My wife and I both ended up in tears.

The trial was a ‘failure’, despite appearing to be an obvious success to a layman like me, as it was to the surgeon that I’m talking about. But not to the drug company that developed it.

See what you think.

The Parkinson’s Drug Trial: A Miracle Cure?, Series 1: Episode 1: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0002tjt via @bbciplayer

An experience that brought back memories of my own into the Bizjet world, written by John Deakin, a proper pilot!

https://www.avweb.com/news/pelican/182134-1.html

Last edited by Stan Woolley; 9th Mar 2019 at 12:49.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 13:19
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by back to Boeing View Post
Whatever way you try to twist and turn it pro deathers have blood on their hands.

Even if any vaccine causes autism, which it doesnít, ask any parent that has lost a child to a vaccine preventable disease ďwould you rather have a dead child or a child with autismĒ.

Thats as as simple as it gets.
I donít really know how it feels like to lose a child or to have an autistic child. I see what the latter has meant to my friends that have an autistic child, it has been really tough.

Iím not really arguing about the benefit of vaccines to fight the big threats, but I see the way things are in the US and I see little opposition to it in the UK. We will go down a similar path without real understanding of complex things imo.

Having no reigns on the pharmaceutical companies would scare me, and it will affect my daughter if she decides to have kids. Iím really not in favour of doing away with vaccines at all, but my intuition is that theyíre out of control. At least in the US, so I think we will follow suit. Having multiple vaccines just goes against my instinct, itís unnatural. I have read that in the States kids are expected to have between fifty and seventy odd vaccinations growing up. No questions allowed. Fcuk that!
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 16:45
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


I donít really know how it feels like to lose a child or to have an autistic child. I see what the latter has meant to my friends that have an autistic child, it has been really tough.

Iím not really arguing about the benefit of vaccines to fight the big threats, but I see the way things are in the US and I see little opposition to it in the UK. We will go down a similar path without real understanding of complex things imo.

Having no reigns on the pharmaceutical companies would scare me, and it will affect my daughter if she decides to have kids. Iím really not in favour of doing away with vaccines at all, but my intuition is that theyíre out of control. At least in the US, so I think we will follow suit. Having multiple vaccines just goes against my instinct, itís unnatural. I have read that in the States kids are expected to have between fifty and seventy odd vaccinations growing up. No questions allowed. Fcuk that!
Of course it's unnatural. That's the point, natural is a massive rate of infant mortality.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 17:53
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Between fifty and seventy vaccinations?
I'd like to see the list, please.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 19:38
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Between fifty and seventy vaccinations?
I'd like to see the list, please.
I havenít counted them, but thereís a lot.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedul...dolescent.html
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 19:59
  #150 (permalink)  
 
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I counted 33 plus the annual flu shots. My two teenagers have had all theirs and they are healthy. I've had all mine plus some extras when I traveled to India, where apparently there is a need.

Why is the number even significant? The immunizations don't cost much even without nationalized health care so I don't think this is the pharma companies making a killing. This is the CDC working to eradicate disease in our country.
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Old 9th Mar 2019, 20:14
  #151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by IFMU View Post
The immunizations don't cost much even without nationalized health care
In the UK immunisations that are "recommended" when travelling to exotic parts of the world for diseases that you can't catch in the UK are not (all) paid for by the NHS (why should people who can't afford such trips subsidise those who can?).

The full set for trips to places like Burma can run to several hundred pounds. We decided we could manage without the expensive ones.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 19:26
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat View Post
The full set for trips to places like Burma can run to several hundred pounds. We decided we could manage without the expensive ones.
I'd rather decide to manage without the ones where the likelihood of the disease is small.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 20:01
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by radar101 View Post
I'd rather decide to manage without the ones where the likelihood of the disease is small.
Fortunately there happened to be a 100% correlation between the expensive ones and the unlikely ones, so we did both at the same time
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 20:56
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos
Between fifty and seventy vaccinations?
I'd like to see the list, please.



​​​​​​stan woolley replied:
I havenít counted them, but thereís a lot.
Well, if anyone wants to make claims about the quantity of anything, and there's a list available, I'd suggest counting first. There are thirty odd, if you include 2nd, 3rd and 4th shots of the same vaccine, which is ballpark-figures similar to the UK.

There are not 'fifty to seventy'.
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 21:19
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Well, if anyone wants to make claims about the quantity of anything, and there's a list available, I'd suggest counting first. There are thirty odd, if you include 2nd, 3rd and 4th shots of the same vaccine, which is ballpark-figures similar to the UK.

There are not 'fifty to seventy'.
Add in the adult schedule and the number rises.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedul...imz/adult.html

Ridiculous. Imo
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 21:32
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, the number rises if you include adult vaccinations, but the claim made was

I have read that in the States kids are expected to have between fifty and seventy odd vaccinations growing up. No questions allowed.
And why ridiculous? How many vaccinations is the right number?
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Old 10th Mar 2019, 22:53
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Yes, the number rises if you include adult vaccinations, but the claim made was

And why ridiculous? How many vaccinations is the right number?
You may be content to have your kids filled up with dodgy s-it but I suspect others would not. The lack of oversight of the pharma industry combined with the huge amounts of money given to politicians and doctors, combined with the silencing of dissent ought to make any sensible person raise their eyebrows.

Born in the uk, I grew up in Africa and became a pilot travelling mainly in Europe but sometimes long haul, living in the Far East for a while too. I would guess I have had a dozen vaccinations in my life, I’m 58.

Whats causing the alarming rise in things like asthma, adhd, autism etc? They haven’t a scoobie, yet they are talking about introducing mandatory vaccinations in the uk. The body deals with diseases naturally in the majority of cases, kids that eat dirt and play outside get natural Immunization, creating protection against future threats. The media has us scared of every possible thing, from cancer to tumours to strokes. Mass vaccination for every possibility is not necessary. It’s a scam, a dangerous one!




Last edited by Stan Woolley; 10th Mar 2019 at 23:29.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 03:06
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Bloody hell, Stan, have you read the first couple of pages of that link?
"Megan", the author, quotes FDA max daily value for aluminium intake 'over a prolonged period' and then complains that vaccines containing aluminium - given once, not over a prolonged period - contain greater quantities. Also seems to ignore that these vaccines are FDA approved. Either the FDA is a trusted source or not, she can't have it both ways.

Not an article with any credibility.
That is something that winds me up on a number of occassions, when people tell me that such and such is going to kill you without actually understanding quantities and exposures. A lot of carcinogenic and toxic chemicals have exposure rates measures in Time Weighted Average (TWA} or Short Term Exposure Limit {STEL}. TWA is measured for eight hours a say, over a five day period so a total of forty hours, and takes into account the volume of the space you are in for that time period. Standing in a telephone box for forty hours will exceed the TWA while being outside in the fresh air will probably never exceed the TWA with an almost infinite airspace around you. STEL is a fifteen minute period, but that doesn't mean to say you can't go away and come back later for another fifteen minutes.

Aluminium poisoning was big news a few years ago, when those of us that grew up with aluminium cooking pans had been exposed to it for years with no ill effects. From experience, the only time you will exceed the TWA or STEL for more carcinogens or toxins is to be be involved in the manufacture of them. Scare tactics on exposure levels are bad reporting or deliberate misinformation.
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 03:10
  #159 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


You may be content to have your kids filled up with dodgy s-it but I suspect others would not. The lack of oversight of the pharma industry combined with the huge amounts of money given to politicians and doctors, combined with the silencing of dissent ought to make any sensible person raise their eyebrows.

Born in the uk, I grew up in Africa and became a pilot travelling mainly in Europe but sometimes long haul, living in the Far East for a while too. I would guess I have had a dozen vaccinations in my life, Iím 58.

Whats causing the alarming rise in things like asthma, adhd, autism etc? They havenít a scoobie, yet they are talking about introducing mandatory vaccinations in the uk. The body deals with diseases naturally in the majority of cases, kids that eat dirt and play outside get natural Immunization, creating protection against future threats. The media has us scared of every possible thing, from cancer to tumours to strokes. Mass vaccination for every possibility is not necessary. Itís a scam, a dangerous one!

https://youtu.be/lnS-xJCG6i4

https://youtu.be/GLbyVnviM7k

Stan

"Causation does not imply correlation" Lots of very clever people keep saying that... Look it up sometime
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Old 11th Mar 2019, 04:07
  #160 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post


You may be content to have your kids filled up with dodgy s-it but I suspect others would not. The lack of oversight of the pharma industry combined with the huge amounts of money given to politicians and doctors, combined with the silencing of dissent ought to make any sensible person raise their eyebrows.

Born in the uk, I grew up in Africa and became a pilot travelling mainly in Europe but sometimes long haul, living in the Far East for a while too. I would guess I have had a dozen vaccinations in my life, Iím 58.

Whats causing the alarming rise in things like asthma, adhd, autism etc? They havenít a scoobie, yet they are talking about introducing mandatory vaccinations in the uk. The body deals with diseases naturally in the majority of cases, kids that eat dirt and play outside get natural Immunization, creating protection against future threats. The media has us scared of every possible thing, from cancer to tumours to strokes. Mass vaccination for every possibility is not necessary. Itís a scam, a dangerous one!

Very strange. You set-up a possible, imagined, increase in 'asthma, adhd, autism' against a KNOWN millions of lives saved and entire killer diseases eliminated. Even if there really is an increase in those things, why blame it on a benign, life-saving and natural process like immunization, rather than all the other huge changes in our environment in the last few 100 years?

If you had any understanding of immunology you would know how mad it is to say that a vaccine is more dangerous than the pathogen it is intended to protect against, or that 10 or 20 or a 100 vaccines somehow represent an abnormal exposure. Your immune system detects and responds to millions of antigens over your life. We live in a sea of natural antigens. These are derived from all sorts of stuff you randomly encounter, including bits of pathogens, chewed-up by the immune system and 'presented' in combination with ultra variable factors in the host. A vaccine is simply one or a few such antigens (in the case of modern vaccines) or killed or weakened pathogens (in the case of last generation vaccines).

Vaccines have without any doubt made a massive contribution to improving human health. They use the body's own natural method of immunity, they just show it a harmless bit of a potentially lethal bug to prime it to respond faster next time it is encountered. A bit like showing a sniffer dog a bit of clothing from their target, it just activates an existing natural system with one more specific target.
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