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Anti Vaxxers

Old 3rd Mar 2019, 04:22
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
In case it appears again it can be identified and the fear is that it will be combined with something else to do more damage.
There is only 1 other infectious disease that has been declared eradicated, I wonder if anyone here can name it?. In both cases there remains a small risk of re appearance from old and undocumented material. There has been a big global effort to identify any stored material potentially infected, but there remains a tiny risk.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 10:02
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Rinderpest?
I don't think it was zoonotic (so only affected animals, did not cross infect humans ).
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 10:08
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 10:15
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Blues&twos View Post
Rinderpest?
I don't think it was zoonotic (so only affected animals, did not cross infect humans ).
Curiously, it appears that measles is derived from, and diverged from rinderpest about 800 years ago.

https://virologyj.biomedcentral.com/...1743-422X-7-52
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 10:44
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Ah, so "formerly zoonotic". Interesting.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 12:15
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
There is only 1 other infectious disease that has been declared eradicated, I wonder if anyone here can name it?. In both cases there remains a small risk of re appearance from old and undocumented material. There has been a big global effort to identify any stored material potentially infected, but there remains a tiny risk.
KNOWN infectious disease is a better way of putting it and woud use dormant rather than eradicated.

It is quite likely there exists others that are dormant but under right conditions will re-emerge.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 15:55
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
KNOWN infectious disease is a better way of putting it and woud use dormant rather than eradicated.

It is quite likely there exists others that are dormant but under right conditions will re-emerge.
I can't agree with that. There was a concerted effort to eradicate these diseases using intensive surveillance and vaccination. I don't see how there can have been an unknown eradication program. Sure, plenty of pathogens come and go - appear and become extinct - but that is not that same thing at all.

Also, I am not sure why you prefer dormant to eradicated. As others have said, there are stocks of these organisms frozen away, but it does not seem possible that they are circulating in the population.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 16:14
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
I can't agree with that. There was a concerted effort to eradicate these diseases using intensive surveillance and vaccination. I don't see how there can have been an unknown eradication program. Sure, plenty of pathogens come and go - appear and become extinct - but that is not that same thing at all.

Also, I am not sure why you prefer dormant to eradicated. As others have said, there are stocks of these organisms frozen away, but it does not seem possible that they are circulating in the population.
Reason I use dormant is medical organisations "believe" it has been eradicated, they cannot / will not say for certain there are no carriers of the disease out there. Sure the PR statements will say that but you can guarantee there is no 100% certainty. Unless you test X billion people you will never know. Given right circumstances they may appear again. Even testing everybody is still no guarantee as a False negative or a False Positive is statistically likely as well.

Rule number 1 is never underestimate Mother Nature.

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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 16:21
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Do a google for small pox and Siberia.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 17:08
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
Do a google for small pox and Siberia.
As I said, it has always been acknowledged that there may be some frozen pathogens - including naturally frozen. But it does not seem possible that there is an unknown carrier state. So we end-up with the semantics of eradication.

As others have said, there are stocks of these organisms frozen away, but it does not seem possible that they are circulating in the population.
Of course, an unknown carrier state cannot be formally, completely ruled-out, but there is no known mechanism for it, and the longer we go without a case, the more highly improbable it becomes.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 00:50
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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I will admit that when my two offspring were getting their MMR jabs, we delayed it for six months. This was back in the nineties, pre-internet days and there was some warning about bad reactions to the inoculation which we told about at the time. Our decision to delay was not based on the reactions but to the fact that both offspring were too young at the time to tell us what hurt and where. Six months gave us the time for them to be able to develop to a stage that they could communicate.

Of course in those days they still held "measles parties" where if one kids picked up something all the rest of the local kids suddenly found themselves having a playdate in the hope they would catch it too. I don't suppose they do that sort of thing now.

Sometimes I think the internet has done more harm than good, yes we can now share information globally but I would suggest that like many other things you should be made to sit a test before you are allowed to use it. Unless you prove competence you don't get the licence...
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 05:37
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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There are still chickenpox parties in my experience.

I wish my mum had done that, I had it aged 22
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 06:37
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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For most kids, chicken-pox isn't a big deal. The problem with deliberately spreading it, is the possibility of infecting adults who haven't had it and vulnerable people such as newborns or those with compromised immune systems.
The issue is that it's uncontrolled.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 07:14
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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When I went into the doctors aged 22 with it I was thrown out the door in seconds by the receptionist. Sat on a wall outside in the car park, 5 mins later she came out with a sick note for 10 days off the doctor and told if I had problems to phone and the district nurse would come round but on no account was I to set foot in the surgery again for 10 days.

My kid had it when he was 2. And it was way less traumatic than when I had it. Pox blisters and pubes are a different ball game.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 08:34
  #115 (permalink)  
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I seem to remember there's a link between chicken pox and shingles in adults which is pretty contagious? Recall a colleague had it, was off for several weeks and did not relish the experience.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 10:24
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Not really chicken pox stays in your body after you have had it the first time stays in the nerves I think. Then when your immune system takes a kicking later on I life it can surface again as shingles.

If you have never had chickenpox you won't get it. But if you have had it in the past you have the potential for it to surface as shingles which is actually the herpes version.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 13:08
  #117 (permalink)  

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Both conditions are from the herpes virus family. Herpes Zoster as opposed to Herpes Simplex (coldsores or genital sores, I v II). It's a mongrel of a virus and lives in the nerves where various conditions can waken it up. Shingles is a whole world of hurt and no fun at all. If you have Shingles you can cause a Chicken Pox outbreak in someone who is not immune to it.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/shingles/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shingles
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 19:52
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by tescoapp View Post
If you have never had chickenpox you won't get it. But if you have had it in the past you have the potential for it to surface as shingles which is actually the herpes version.
Correct, it's known as herpes zoster, and it's one of the most painful things I've ever experienced. And my case was relatively mild compared to some people I know. Fortunately, there is a vaccine for it (actually two, one that's beeni around a while called Zastavax, and a newer one known as Shingrix (which requires two jabs two months apart)). Anyone who has had chickenpox would be well advised to get immunized from shingles.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 20:08
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Re rinderpest:- when I lived in Africa for over two decades, we had a kind of antediluvian saying of "Before the Rinder was even a pest!"

Years later in the UK my family was blessed to cross paths with the wonderful Walter Plowright whom my better half helped to look after to his end - and a right good fellow too - a true gentleman scientist. The night he died, I raised a glass of Scotland's finest drop and gave thanks to his life on behalf of all my African friends - known and unknown - to the man who removed such a scourge from that beautiful land.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 21:29
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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No link found between MMR and autism
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