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Anti Vaxxers

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Anti Vaxxers

Old 2nd Apr 2019, 13:19
  #301 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
That could kill me - I'm diabetic.

PDR
Donít worry, itís probably nothing like 99.9% sugar. Chuks loves to make stuff up, his stories are fantastic.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 13:19
  #302 (permalink)  
 
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In the case of a diabetic they just show the patient a picture of the pill; that has the same effect.

The odd rodent hair or turd aside, Stan, it be's 99.999% sugar, just as described: https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail...843532648.html

Last edited by chuks; 2nd Apr 2019 at 13:30.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 13:38
  #303 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chuks View Post
In the case of a diabetic they just show the patient a picture of the pill; that has the same effect.

The odd rodent hair or turd aside, Stan, it be's 99.999% sugar, just as described: https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail...843532648.html
made me smile.
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Old 2nd Apr 2019, 13:46
  #304 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.thecut.com/2019/04/when-...ti-vaxxer.html
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 03:48
  #305 (permalink)  
 
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What do you call alternative medicine that works?







Medicine
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 07:05
  #306 (permalink)  
 
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For anyone still interested in facts, this is an interesting interview. Even if half of what he says is true then I think Americans, and so us, ought to be somewhat unsettled.

https://www.thehighersidechats.com/?...w=4633-podcast
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 09:16
  #307 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
For anyone still interested in facts, this is an interesting interview. Even if half of what he says is true then I think Americans, and so us, ought to be somewhat unsettled.

https://www.thehighersidechats.com/?...w=4633-podcast
Please don't expect me to sit through and hour and half podcast in an attempt to distill a worthwhile message. I randomly jumped about it to get an idea. I loved when they said that a restaurant can say more about what they serve than a doctor can about the contents of a vaccine. That is so hilariously mad. Especially when they went on to say that vaccines contain "cells from dead babies and DNA from aborted fetus" (or words to that effect). And referred to risk of allergens. In fact of course we know vastly less about what we eat. Typical restaurant food is almost entirely composed of cells from murdered animals (and plants) and DNA from tortured fluffy animals, which have been fed unknown cocktails of drugs, antibiotics, (and in the USA) growth enhancers etc.... While a vaccine is characterized with extreme precision. This nicely illustrates how bad we are at understanding risk. Millions (probably 100s of millions) of people have died from eating food! But I don't think we should ban it.


The real problem is that you are conflating issues; which is standard practice among anti vaxxers and similar. I have little doubt that there are examples of the FDA being too close to big pharma. Although I hope not as bad as FAA and Boeing. But that does not alter the fact that vaccines are known to be safe and effective. BTW. that is a quote from a reference used by your Harvard Immunologist wozzername up thread, I previously encouraged you to follow through to those refs and see if you can understand how what wozzername said may have been strictly true taken in isolation, but did not detract from the fact that vaccines are one of the (3?)* most successful health interventions ever. It was a bit like saying there is statistically significant correlation between the number of people killed and injured in aircraft and the number of people who travel by air. Therefore flying should be banned. And by the way it's all a plot between the FAA and big aerospace.


* name the other 2?
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 09:43
  #308 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
For anyone still interested in facts, this is an interesting interview. Even if half of what he says is true then I think Americans, and so us, ought to be somewhat unsettled.

https://www.thehighersidechats.com/?...w=4633-podcast
Since you will be familiar with this recording, does it say how many lives and life-changing infections have been saved by the introduction of these immunisations?
Or does it give an alternative explanation for the coincidence of the reduction with the introduction of mass immunisation?
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 10:57
  #309 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Stan Woolley View Post
Donít worry, itís probably nothing like 99.9% sugar. Chuks loves to make stuff up, his stories are fantastic.
No, his statement is supported by verifieable evidence, unlike the cause you are promoting which merely kills and maims children. I'm sure you believe promoting the killing and maiming of children is a fulfilling hobby, but don't expect any decent people to join in with your dspicable passtimes.

PDR

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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 12:24
  #310 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
No, his statement is supported by verifieable evidence, unlike the cause you are promoting which merely kills and maims children. I'm sure you believe promoting the killing and maiming of children is a fulfilling hobby, but don't expect any decent people to join in with your dspicable passtimes.

PDR
Your post is nothing more than a childish rant.
If I were that way inclined I’m certain I would be offended and I might think about suing, but I am open to any opinions, no matter how far from reality and ranty they might be.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 12:31
  #311 (permalink)  
 
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Sue and be damned.

PDR
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 13:10
  #312 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Sue and be damned.

PDR
The red mist must have taken over your comprehension ability. Itís amazing how people lose their reasoning.

Whoís going to look at an aviation forum to look for information about vaccinations ffs? Itís not like Iím a fanatic, I just want an open discussion! For the umpteenth time, Iím not totally anti-vaccine! I just think there is another side to the topic that appears to me is being suppressed. To be honest, you are just reinforcing this opinion, when people have nothing to hide, they are not so aggressive/defensive.

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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 13:20
  #313 (permalink)  
 
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I have seen children who were permanently damaged because the parents of their schoolmates were taken in by snake-oil specialists like yourself and fell for the middle-class fashionable line that vaccination was an evil mass-medication whose sole purpose was corporate greed. People like you are irresponsible and should be held to account for your misdeeds.

You claim that you are not anti-vaccination, yet you are posting in a thread on vaccination, keep posting links to anti-vaccination videos and post supportive comments about prominent anti-vaccination campaigners. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it should be shut in an oven at 200degC for 35mins/500g.

As long as you maintain this behaviour the normal people will be entitled to judge you character on its basis. I hold you personally responsoble for your actions, nothing more.

PDR
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 13:54
  #314 (permalink)  
 
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Stan Woolley,
but I am open to any opinions, no matter how far from reality and ranty they might be.
Let me give you an opinion, you are a closet anti-vaccine advocate, you have nothing but contempt for vaccines and vaccinations and you search the internet to dredge up sources that support your position. For example, you hoisted up Robert Kennedy, Jr. as one of your stellar anti-vaccination supporters. Robert's entire legal career was made not in the medical anti-vaccine arena, but in the environmental arena where he made a career of litigating against anything thought to harm the environment. He did a good job as a litigator, winning many awards for his efforts. But, during this legal career, the closest Robert came to the medical field was his treatment for drug addiction (cocaine) that nearly cost him his legal career, he was fired but then subsequently rehired by the law firm he worked for after completing a rehab program. So now at the end of his legal career devoted to the environment, IMO, he became bored and moved on to a more lucrative arena, anti-vaccines. Robert is not an expert in the world of vaccines just as you are not, and he never will be. It is a field where litigators can thrive as numerous cases are in courts to be decided, or on the speaking trail for generous speaking fees.

One of my older brothers developed polio at age 16 and within 4 months was dead. There was no vaccine for polio at the time. But, there was a hospital created near the University of Pittsburgh for polio victims. It was jam-packed full of iron lungs and rocking beds, the only treatments that prolonged life or helped some in recovery. My brother never made it past the iron lung first stage of treatment. Besides him, there were thousands who died world-wide.Then a few years after his death, came the first vaccine an administered injection, then a second, an oral vaccine, a liquid dispensed on a sugar cube. After the vaccines became available to the general public, the polio hospital was closed, lack of new patients. Polio in the United States was basically eliminated.

So you can go on as an anti-vaccine promoter, but beware, you are pissing into the wind. The numerous vaccines that have been developed have eliminated diseases worldwide when promptly given. When not given (anti-vaccine communities), the diseases return such as now in the United States for measles, whooping cough, mumps and chicken pox as a result of anti-vaccine advocates such as yourself.

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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 13:59
  #315 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by double_barrel View Post
Please don't expect me to sit through and hour and half podcast in an attempt to distill a worthwhile message. I randomly jumped about it to get an idea. I loved when they said that a restaurant can say more about what they serve than a doctor can about the contents of a vaccine. That is so hilariously mad.
* name the other 2?
Antibiotics and Washing hands?

This morning on Victoria Derbyshire I heard a British expert agree with exactly the point that he was trying to make in the interview. She agreed that the nurse giving the injection would not know what it contained, and said that this was an area that must be improved. In the interview Bigtree states that waiters or at least chefs have to know what any meal being served to us contains, otherwise they might be liable to be sued if for example someone ate a peanut after being assured there were no peanuts present.

I thought it was quite a reasonable point.

Double Barrel, you said in post #72, that there was no link between mmr and autism : ďYes I am. Because there is zero evidence. ď
How then do you explain what Dr Zimmerman and Dr Thomson, two of those very close to this exact topic, have to say? They both say that they think that under certain circumstances there is a connection. Zimmerman was an expert witness who immediately got fired when he made his opinion known to the CDC. Thomson still works there, but audio tapes of his guilty confessions are widely available on the internet.

The Vaccination Debate | Full Measure


Anyone else put off listening to the podcast by double barrel, I would ask that you give it a listen, then you can reasonably comment. He explains exactly why Andrew Wakefield got struck off and lots of other things worth hearing.




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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 14:18
  #316 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post

You claim that you are not anti-vaccination, yet you are posting in a thread on vaccination, keep posting links to anti-vaccination videos and post supportive comments about prominent anti-vaccination campaigners. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it should be shut in an oven at 200degC for 35mins/500g.

As long as you maintain this behaviour the normal people will be entitled to judge you character on its basis. I hold you personally responsoble for your actions, nothing more.

PDR
I didnít start the thread.
Iím not, believe what you will.
I either post, or I donít. Not posting wonít change how I think. As I said, itís an aviation forum, so Iím hardly reaching any vulnerable people.
Show me where Iíve made supportive subjective comments?

Normal people? Like you you mean!
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 14:19
  #317 (permalink)  
 
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Over & Out.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 15:14
  #318 (permalink)  
 
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To play successfully Devil’s Advocate - because after all, this is what you are doing - you must also be able to accept both opposing points of view. It should be about healthy debate, not adversarial conflict. To be a good devil’s advocate, quite rightly question the evidence and offer alternate conclusions based on the same data - it’s often distorted to by conflict-avoidant people wanting to cover their true opposition.

I thought this made interesting reading:

” The advocatis diaboli (devils advocate)was established in 1587 as the official lawyer appointed by the Catholic Church to provide evidence against canonization (being recognized as a Saint). The job was to be skeptic, to poke holes, and generally to keep the standards for Sainthood very high. Just like in most legal roles, the devil’s advocate was expected to argue strongly against canonization regardless of his personal opinion of the merit of the candidate.”

Quite rightly, the pharma industry (and any others) should be kept on their toes and always maintain high standards, but we shouldn’t automatically assume they’re always “the bad guys”
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 15:32
  #319 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Turbine D View Post
One of my older brothers developed polio at age 16 and within 4 months was dead. There was no vaccine for polio at the time. But, there was a hospital created near the University of Pittsburgh for polio victims. It was jam-packed full of iron lungs and rocking beds, the only treatments that prolonged life or helped some in recovery. My brother never made it past the iron lung first stage of treatment. Besides him, there were thousands who died world-wide.Then a few years after his death, came the first vaccine an administered injection, then a second, an oral vaccine, a liquid dispensed on a sugar cube. After the vaccines became available to the general public, the polio hospital was closed, lack of new patients. Polio in the United States was basically eliminated.
From Wikiwaki
The two vaccines have eliminated polio from most of the world, and reduced the number of cases reported each year from an estimated 350,000 in 1988 to 33 in 2018.
Having gone to school with kids in calipers I know that, for most parents, the decision is a no-brainer.
I recently heard the anti-vax movement described as just one more first-world aberration.
There are not many third-worlders climbing onto that band-wagon.

Apparently the oral polio vaccines (Sabin), being a weakened live virus, is known to cause about three cases of vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis per million doses administered.
This compares with 5,000 cases per million who are paralysed following a polio infection.
As I said, it's a no-brainer.
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Old 3rd Apr 2019, 17:48
  #320 (permalink)  
 
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Meanwhile in HKG & the Philippines.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...acific-allowed
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