ISIS "Bride"
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SAM. u.k.
Age: 76
Posts: 257
ISIS "Bride"
According to the BBC News just now, The Times is reporting that one of the three London girls who left to join ISIS wants to return "home".
She's 9 months pregnant and prefers to have her child in the UK!
Evidently, according to her TV interview, she has no regrets about going to Syria or marrying into ISIS, but after losing two babies she wants to return and have the third child in the UK "where it will be taken care of" direct quote.
I say tough sh!t, the old adage applies, you made your bed now lie in it.
Den, (who doesn't give a **** about PC)
She's 9 months pregnant and prefers to have her child in the UK!
Evidently, according to her TV interview, she has no regrets about going to Syria or marrying into ISIS, but after losing two babies she wants to return and have the third child in the UK "where it will be taken care of" direct quote.
I say tough sh!t, the old adage applies, you made your bed now lie in it.
Den, (who doesn't give a **** about PC)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 53
Posts: 898
This was the main topic of conversation in the office this morning. And the unanimous sentiment, across what is normally a range of political viewpoints, is that she should be left to rot there.
She left this country to join a murderous caliphate' that bears nothing but malevolence to the civilised world. She is, by all accounts, quite unrepentant. And yet now she's 9 months pregnant she wants to return to take advantage of the comforts and privileges of a country that presumably she regards with contempt.
You made a fundamental life choice Ms Begum. Take responsibility for the consequences.
She left this country to join a murderous caliphate' that bears nothing but malevolence to the civilised world. She is, by all accounts, quite unrepentant. And yet now she's 9 months pregnant she wants to return to take advantage of the comforts and privileges of a country that presumably she regards with contempt.
You made a fundamental life choice Ms Begum. Take responsibility for the consequences.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by scr1
Should we put the sins of the parent upon the child??
However in circumstances such as this we must have grave suspicions that it wouldn't turn out well and that around 2040 this child would be in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. The girl clearly isn't right in the head with her "No regrets" stance. Quite apart from the boost that lenient treatment would provide to people like Britain First. I would prefer asking the Kurds to sort the problem for us.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
Whilst I have sympathy for the unborn child, this woman chose to give up her right to British citizenship by voluntarily leaving to be live with, and support, a self-declared enemy of the UK. As such I think that she should be treated as any other enemy alien; she should have none of the rights afforded to her as a consequence of being born in the UK.
If that seems harsh on the unborn child, then what about all the other unborn children amongst those who have chosen to give up the citizenship of their country of birth in order to support their birth countries enemies? Should there be an international obligation that any female enemy of a state shall be forgiven all their actions just because they happen to get pregnant?
If that seems harsh on the unborn child, then what about all the other unborn children amongst those who have chosen to give up the citizenship of their country of birth in order to support their birth countries enemies? Should there be an international obligation that any female enemy of a state shall be forgiven all their actions just because they happen to get pregnant?
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,179
She is a British citizen - that means that if she rocks up at a border she has an irrovocable right to re-enter the UK because countries are not allowed to render people "stateless". So talk of refusing her admission to the UK is just purile macho posturing. That leaves two questions:
1. If she comes back to the UK should she face criminal procedings? That's one for the CPS - she was only 15 when she left, and so may not have been old enough to be held responsible for crimes under terrorism legislation. Even if we forget the purely legal aspect, I'm not sure that a silly mistake made by a groomed, misguided, naiive 15-year-old schoolgirl should damn her in perpetuity - especially if she has a child. Compassion is one of the things which we (the liberal, tolerent western societies) are supposed to have as a differentiator in comparison to the dogma-driven vile despotic regimes like Isis, Pakistan, Iran and Trump. Let her return and treat her properly, so she can actually experience the difference between her idealised ISIS "heros" and her home country.
2. Should we help her come back? Well the FCO normally do provide financial support to British citizens who find themselves stuck overseas, but it's usually in the form of loans that have to be repaid. I see no reason why this case should be any different. To get access to this support people have t9o0 find their way to a British embassy or consulate, or one of a country who we delegate consular affairs to where we have no diplomatic relations, and we don't provide any extra help to achieve this first step. So if she rocks up at a suitable consulate seeking help I don't see why we shouldn't loan her the money to fly home. I'm pretty sure she could get charity help with both stages anyway.
€0.00007 supplied,
PDR
1. If she comes back to the UK should she face criminal procedings? That's one for the CPS - she was only 15 when she left, and so may not have been old enough to be held responsible for crimes under terrorism legislation. Even if we forget the purely legal aspect, I'm not sure that a silly mistake made by a groomed, misguided, naiive 15-year-old schoolgirl should damn her in perpetuity - especially if she has a child. Compassion is one of the things which we (the liberal, tolerent western societies) are supposed to have as a differentiator in comparison to the dogma-driven vile despotic regimes like Isis, Pakistan, Iran and Trump. Let her return and treat her properly, so she can actually experience the difference between her idealised ISIS "heros" and her home country.
2. Should we help her come back? Well the FCO normally do provide financial support to British citizens who find themselves stuck overseas, but it's usually in the form of loans that have to be repaid. I see no reason why this case should be any different. To get access to this support people have t9o0 find their way to a British embassy or consulate, or one of a country who we delegate consular affairs to where we have no diplomatic relations, and we don't provide any extra help to achieve this first step. So if she rocks up at a suitable consulate seeking help I don't see why we shouldn't loan her the money to fly home. I'm pretty sure she could get charity help with both stages anyway.
€0.00007 supplied,
PDR
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Age: 50
Posts: 1,307
She doesn't seem to be the brightest.
Surely if you're looking to return from ISIS you denounce them, claim to have been brainwashed and scarred by your experiences with them?
Her stance of no regrets, not bovvered and I just want to milk the state a bit more doesn't seem likely to attract much sympathy.
Surely if you're looking to return from ISIS you denounce them, claim to have been brainwashed and scarred by your experiences with them?
Her stance of no regrets, not bovvered and I just want to milk the state a bit more doesn't seem likely to attract much sympathy.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,179
Originally Posted by VP959
Whilst I have sympathy for the unborn child, this woman chose to give up her right to British citizenship by voluntarily leaving to be live with, and support, a self-declared enemy of the UK.
PDR
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: West Wiltshire, UK
Age: 66
Posts: 369
Originally Posted by PDR1
When she was a naiive and silly 15-year-old schoolgirl, and after grooming. If she had been 25 at the time I'd agree with you, but I do not beat-up children.
PDR
PDR
If she had renounced her past actions, made it clear that she had acted as an immature child and now realised that she was wrong to have acted as she did when she left the UK, then I might feel more sympathy for her.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Age: 62
Posts: 656
There is no UK consular in Syria, nor is HM Govt going to send anyone out there to help her, she will have to get herself to Istanbul or Ankara to give herself up.
IF she is returned here she will be detained to be assessed for prosecution, and maybe stripped of her UK citizenship.
Her kid will go into care.
She would always pose a threat to the security of the UK - and to herself - with that, even if she is not incarcerated she could not ever live a normal life or go back to her parents, she would have to have police protection from far left and/or right groups that may target her.
Let her rot in the sand pit...Maybe another air strike might wipe her and her mates out for good or the Kurds get her...
IF she is returned here she will be detained to be assessed for prosecution, and maybe stripped of her UK citizenship.
Her kid will go into care.
She would always pose a threat to the security of the UK - and to herself - with that, even if she is not incarcerated she could not ever live a normal life or go back to her parents, she would have to have police protection from far left and/or right groups that may target her.
Let her rot in the sand pit...Maybe another air strike might wipe her and her mates out for good or the Kurds get her...
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,550
PDR1
Have you read the BBC article? Your oft quoted statement that people can’t be rendered stateless is clearly debunked. It says it is unlikely in her case but has been done.
I think the article is one of the better written pieces on the website actually. It suggests that the FCO give these cases a lot of thought. Her needs and those of the wider UK are rightly considered.
I’m afraid I have little sympathy. I wouldn’t trust her to successfully reintegrate into our society.
We may disagree on the issue but I think the world is a better place when we have a spectrum of viewpoints.
BV
I think the article is one of the better written pieces on the website actually. It suggests that the FCO give these cases a lot of thought. Her needs and those of the wider UK are rightly considered.
I’m afraid I have little sympathy. I wouldn’t trust her to successfully reintegrate into our society.
We may disagree on the issue but I think the world is a better place when we have a spectrum of viewpoints.
BV
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by Effluent Man
In short no. I seem to remember one of the top Nazis having a son who is pretty much a paragon of virtue, Was it Bormann?
However in circumstances such as this we must have grave suspicions that it wouldn't turn out well and that around 2040 this child would be in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. The girl clearly isn't right in the head with her "No regrets" stance. Quite apart from the boost that lenient treatment would provide to people like Britain First. I would prefer asking the Kurds to sort the problem for us.
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 1,179
Originally Posted by VP959
However, she has said that she is "no longer that naive little schoolgirl" and yet refuses to renounce the actions of the group she left the UK to join. She appears to have given no indication at all that she isn't still a radical Muslim extremist. Her only motive in seeking to come to the UK is to get free health care, by her own admission.
If she had renounced her past actions, made it clear that she had acted as an immature child and now realised that she was wrong to have acted as she did when she left the UK, then I might feel more sympathy for her.
If she had renounced her past actions, made it clear that she had acted as an immature child and now realised that she was wrong to have acted as she did when she left the UK, then I might feel more sympathy for her.
PDR
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Clarty Waters, UK
Age: 53
Posts: 898
Originally Posted by PDR1
Even if we forget the purely legal aspect, I'm not sure that a silly mistake made by a groomed, misguided, naiive 15-year-old schoolgirl should damn her in perpetuity - especially if she has a child. Compassion is one of the things which we (the liberal, tolerent western societies) are supposed to have as a differentiator in comparison to the dogma-driven vile despotic regimes like Isis, Pakistan, Iran and Trump. Let her return and treat her properly, so she can actually experience the difference between her idealised ISIS "heros" and her home country.
As to being a silly 15 year old schoolgirl, she herself acknowledges this is what she was when she left for Syria, but she’s also quite clear that she now regards herself as an informed adult. So I say again, she made a choice. She could have attempted to return home a long time ago, instead she remained to the bitter end and it’s clear from her interview that she was happy with life in the caliphate and continues to support IS and their objectives at a fundamental level. So if that’s where her loyalty continues to lie, than she should accept responsibility for the consequences of that loyalty.
