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ISIS "Bride"

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ISIS "Bride"

Old 14th Feb 2019, 07:32
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ISIS "Bride"

According to the BBC News just now, The Times is reporting that one of the three London girls who left to join ISIS wants to return "home".
She's 9 months pregnant and prefers to have her child in the UK!
Evidently, according to her TV interview, she has no regrets about going to Syria or marrying into ISIS, but after losing two babies she wants to return and have the third child in the UK "where it will be taken care of" direct quote.
I say tough sh!t, the old adage applies, you made your bed now lie in it.
Den, (who doesn't give a **** about PC)
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 07:35
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Hear, hear.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 07:39
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Hell is too good for her.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 07:52
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And the cost in pure financial terms of monitoring this animal for life, due to her clear radicalisation ? A pound too many for my liking.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:01
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Should we put the sins of the parent upon the child??
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:06
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This was the main topic of conversation in the office this morning. And the unanimous sentiment, across what is normally a range of political viewpoints, is that she should be left to rot there.

She left this country to join a murderous caliphate' that bears nothing but malevolence to the civilised world. She is, by all accounts, quite unrepentant. And yet now she's 9 months pregnant she wants to return to take advantage of the comforts and privileges of a country that presumably she regards with contempt.

You made a fundamental life choice Ms Begum. Take responsibility for the consequences.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:11
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Originally Posted by scr1 View Post
Should we put the sins of the parent upon the child??

we donít at our peril.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:28
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Originally Posted by scr1 View Post
Should we put the sins of the parent upon the child??
In short no. I seem to remember one of the top Nazis having a son who is pretty much a paragon of virtue, Was it Bormann?

However in circumstances such as this we must have grave suspicions that it wouldn't turn out well and that around 2040 this child would be in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. The girl clearly isn't right in the head with her "No regrets" stance. Quite apart from the boost that lenient treatment would provide to people like Britain First. I would prefer asking the Kurds to sort the problem for us.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:37
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Whilst I have sympathy for the unborn child, this woman chose to give up her right to British citizenship by voluntarily leaving to be live with, and support, a self-declared enemy of the UK. As such I think that she should be treated as any other enemy alien; she should have none of the rights afforded to her as a consequence of being born in the UK.

If that seems harsh on the unborn child, then what about all the other unborn children amongst those who have chosen to give up the citizenship of their country of birth in order to support their birth countries enemies? Should there be an international obligation that any female enemy of a state shall be forgiven all their actions just because they happen to get pregnant?
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:49
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She is a British citizen - that means that if she rocks up at a border she has an irrovocable right to re-enter the UK because countries are not allowed to render people "stateless". So talk of refusing her admission to the UK is just purile macho posturing. That leaves two questions:

1. If she comes back to the UK should she face criminal procedings? That's one for the CPS - she was only 15 when she left, and so may not have been old enough to be held responsible for crimes under terrorism legislation. Even if we forget the purely legal aspect, I'm not sure that a silly mistake made by a groomed, misguided, naiive 15-year-old schoolgirl should damn her in perpetuity - especially if she has a child. Compassion is one of the things which we (the liberal, tolerent western societies) are supposed to have as a differentiator in comparison to the dogma-driven vile despotic regimes like Isis, Pakistan, Iran and Trump. Let her return and treat her properly, so she can actually experience the difference between her idealised ISIS "heros" and her home country.

2. Should we help her come back? Well the FCO normally do provide financial support to British citizens who find themselves stuck overseas, but it's usually in the form of loans that have to be repaid. I see no reason why this case should be any different. To get access to this support people have t9o0 find their way to a British embassy or consulate, or one of a country who we delegate consular affairs to where we have no diplomatic relations, and we don't provide any extra help to achieve this first step. So if she rocks up at a suitable consulate seeking help I don't see why we shouldn't loan her the money to fly home. I'm pretty sure she could get charity help with both stages anyway.

Ä0.00007 supplied,

PDR
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:50
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She doesn't seem to be the brightest.
Surely if you're looking to return from ISIS you denounce them, claim to have been brainwashed and scarred by your experiences with them?
Her stance of no regrets, not bovvered and I just want to milk the state a bit more doesn't seem likely to attract much sympathy.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:51
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
Whilst I have sympathy for the unborn child, this woman chose to give up her right to British citizenship by voluntarily leaving to be live with, and support, a self-declared enemy of the UK.
When she was a naiive and silly 15-year-old schoolgirl, and after grooming. If she had been 25 at the time I'd agree with you, but I do not beat-up children.

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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:57
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
When she was a naiive and silly 15-year-old schoolgirl, and after grooming. If she had been 25 at the time I'd agree with you, but I do not beat-up children.

PDR
However, she has said that she is "no longer that naive little schoolgirl" and yet refuses to renounce the actions of the group she left the UK to join. She appears to have given no indication at all that she isn't still a radical Muslim extremist. Her only motive in seeking to come to the UK is to get free health care, by her own admission.

If she had renounced her past actions, made it clear that she had acted as an immature child and now realised that she was wrong to have acted as she did when she left the UK, then I might feel more sympathy for her.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 08:59
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There is no UK consular in Syria, nor is HM Govt going to send anyone out there to help her, she will have to get herself to Istanbul or Ankara to give herself up.

IF she is returned here she will be detained to be assessed for prosecution, and maybe stripped of her UK citizenship.
Her kid will go into care.

She would always pose a threat to the security of the UK - and to herself - with that, even if she is not incarcerated she could not ever live a normal life or go back to her parents, she would have to have police protection from far left and/or right groups that may target her.

Let her rot in the sand pit...Maybe another air strike might wipe her and her mates out for good or the Kurds get her...
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 09:00
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Should we put the sins of the parent upon the child??
May sound harsh, but, it's not our problem. and neither should we allow it to be.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 09:07
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PDR1

Have you read the BBC article? Your oft quoted statement that people canít be rendered stateless is clearly debunked. It says it is unlikely in her case but has been done.

I think the article is one of the better written pieces on the website actually. It suggests that the FCO give these cases a lot of thought. Her needs and those of the wider UK are rightly considered.

Iím afraid I have little sympathy. I wouldnít trust her to successfully reintegrate into our society.

We may disagree on the issue but I think the world is a better place when we have a spectrum of viewpoints.

BV
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 09:07
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Target Practice I say
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 09:13
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post


In short no. I seem to remember one of the top Nazis having a son who is pretty much a paragon of virtue, Was it Bormann?

However in circumstances such as this we must have grave suspicions that it wouldn't turn out well and that around 2040 this child would be in the headlines for all the wrong reasons. The girl clearly isn't right in the head with her "No regrets" stance. Quite apart from the boost that lenient treatment would provide to people like Britain First. I would prefer asking the Kurds to sort the problem for us.
Or Himmlers daughter Gudrun Burwitz who remained a devout and active Nazi all of her life. Treating her father as a hero.
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 09:23
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Originally Posted by VP959 View Post
However, she has said that she is "no longer that naive little schoolgirl" and yet refuses to renounce the actions of the group she left the UK to join. She appears to have given no indication at all that she isn't still a radical Muslim extremist. Her only motive in seeking to come to the UK is to get free health care, by her own admission.

If she had renounced her past actions, made it clear that she had acted as an immature child and now realised that she was wrong to have acted as she did when she left the UK, then I might feel more sympathy for her.
She is still strongly under the influence of her groomers. People who fell under the spell of religious cults often took a couple of years of counselling before they were able to even consider how their views had been programmed. This is no different IMHO. We seem happy to "rescue" much older girls from the clutches of communities like the Davidians - of course they are middle-class and white, which I suspect may be one of the obstacles people suffer in tryting to see this girl as a victim.

PDR
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Old 14th Feb 2019, 09:29
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Originally Posted by PDR1 View Post
Even if we forget the purely legal aspect, I'm not sure that a silly mistake made by a groomed, misguided, naiive 15-year-old schoolgirl should damn her in perpetuity - especially if she has a child. Compassion is one of the things which we (the liberal, tolerent western societies) are supposed to have as a differentiator in comparison to the dogma-driven vile despotic regimes like Isis, Pakistan, Iran and Trump. Let her return and treat her properly, so she can actually experience the difference between her idealised ISIS "heros" and her home country.
Thatís all very well, but what about compassion to those tortured, raped and murdered by the regime she gave her loyalty to (and quite possibly her jihadist husband), not to mention their parents, bereaved spouses and orphaned children? What about compassion towards those who may yet be hurt if she is allowed to return home and begins to radicalise others? What about compassion to those of us who will have to foot the bill for her medical treatment, her monitoring and quite probably her protection? Sorry, but compassion has to be considered in a broad as well as narrow context.

As to being a silly 15 year old schoolgirl, she herself acknowledges this is what she was when she left for Syria, but sheís also quite clear that she now regards herself as an informed adult. So I say again, she made a choice. She could have attempted to return home a long time ago, instead she remained to the bitter end and itís clear from her interview that she was happy with life in the caliphate and continues to support IS and their objectives at a fundamental level. So if thatís where her loyalty continues to lie, than she should accept responsibility for the consequences of that loyalty.
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