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Save the NHS - Stop smoking and drinking

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Save the NHS - Stop smoking and drinking

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Old 8th Jan 2019, 09:27
  #21 (permalink)  
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The NHS can work quickly, from presenting to my GP to my cancer up was 7 weeks. There had been a risk of postponement if post-op beds were not available. Had that been the case then my whole op team would have been twiddling their thumbs.

Is it the case that we need more general care beds in local hospitals rather than a concentration in the large regional ones? Our local hospital is under threat of closure. Should that happen the staff will lose their jobs. Some might seek employment in the regional hospitals but these are all an hour's journey time away.

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 8th Jan 2019 at 11:27.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 13:21
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
PJ, it took me a moment to understand what you said.

NI is levied on income. Are you saying it should be levied on pension income as well as earned income? I don't think that would be acceptable to pensioners
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Pensioners want a disproportionate amount of the healthcare budget spent treating their old age conditions, but are totally unwilling to make an increased contribution towards it. As you say, it is "unacceptable" to them. The "me generation" indeed....
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 19:02
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However, pensioners were also young and healthy once, and were paying NI then, so surely it all evens out?
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 19:13
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Pensioners want a disproportionate amount of the healthcare budget spent treating their old age conditions, but are totally unwilling to make an increased contribution towards it. As you say, it is "unacceptable" to them. The "me generation" indeed....
That is illogical.

You are saying that a young person is paying in and an old person is getting benefits out.

They were young once and you will be old in the future.

I accept that the age democratic has shifted but the more numerous then were numerous contributors then. If NI was squandered was that their fault? If NHS budgets have soared is it their fault or of the 'free' service providing more and more?

It is a difficult problem but if NI was chargeable against non-state pensions it would be butva moment before avoidance plans avoided paying NI.
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 19:14
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B&T, snap. .
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Old 8th Jan 2019, 21:11
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
That is illogical.

You are saying that a young person is paying in and an old person is getting benefits out.

They were young once and you will be old in the future.

I accept that the age democratic has shifted but the more numerous then were numerous contributors then. If NI was squandered was that their fault? If NHS budgets have soared is it their fault or of the 'free' service providing more and more?

It is a difficult problem but if NI was chargeable against non-state pensions it would be butva moment before avoidance plans avoided paying NI.
All the old tired self justifications trotted out from the "ME generation". The last sentence of your post reads as gibberish by the way. What would the resident PPRuNe "grammah + spellin" police say...
You live in the here and now. Yes NI was squandered in the past. Your NI money was wasted so now your generation wants to take mine?? This is what you are saying? IF retired people want a standard of healthcare from the NHS they should be prepared to make a significant, and fairer contribution towards it. To say otherwise is adopting the position of a selfish, self righteous parasite. It's simple stuff.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 12:19
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
All the old tired self justifications trotted out from the "ME generation". The last sentence of your post reads as gibberish by the way. What would the resident PPRuNe "grammah + spellin" police say...
You live in the here and now. Yes NI was squandered in the past. Your NI money was wasted so now your generation wants to take mine?? This is what you are saying? IF retired people want a standard of healthcare from the NHS they should be prepared to make a significant, and fairer contribution towards it. To say otherwise is adopting the position of a selfish, self righteous parasite. It's simple stuff.
Wow, sensing a huge chip on one shoulder there!

Not sure what you mean by the ME generation. Seems that the older generations paid their NI contributions in line with the rules at the time just like you will have to.

Its you that comes across as selfish and uncaring. Those OAPs having the audacity to live long enough to retire and need support from the NHS and taking your NI money.

I guess you're from the sod you I'm OK generation.
You make me sick.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 18:24
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
All the old tired self justifications trotted out from the "ME generation". The last sentence of your post reads as gibberish by the way. What would the resident PPRuNe "grammah + spellin" police say...
You live in the here and now. Yes NI was squandered in the past. Your NI money was wasted so now your generation wants to take mine?? This is what you are saying? IF retired people want a standard of healthcare from the NHS they should be prepared to make a significant, and fairer contribution towards it. To say otherwise is adopting the position of a selfish, self righteous parasite. It's simple stuff.
Whoa there!

Pontius pressed a ‘v’ instead of the space bar and did not spot it, so it should have been ‘but a’ not ‘butva’, surely you could work that out?

Parasite?? how dare you. Today’s generation pays yesterday’s generation’s pensions and health care, that’s how it works. Yesterdays generation are not being greedy, they paid in all their working lives (for the previous generation to them). In addition there are many folk close to pension age who now won’t get their pension at 65, but will have to work for another 2 or more years, paying even more into the Exchequer.

People are living longer but it’s not because they are selfish. I am sure you would like to live as long as possible rather than die early? The increasing healthcare budget could be helped by not building HS2 (100 billion), and not giving 1 billion to the DUP to rescue a bungled election; taxing big companies fairly, preventing tax evasion, avoidance, and offshore accounting.

It would also have helped if Gordon Brown had not allowed pension funds to be plundered by companies, and if he had not sold most of the UK’s gold when the value was at a 20 year low. Not paying 31 million to repaint and refurbish Big Ben and goodness knows how much to refurbish other parts of the Houses of Parliament might also help the health budget?

When you are drawing your pension you will want what is due to you and what you have spent your whole working life contributing to.


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Old 9th Jan 2019, 21:32
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Having read those replies I'm slightly disgusted but not surprised about the mindset of a little clique on this forum... There is an old saying, "There are none so blind as those who do not wish to see". With the current crop of many retirees it's "There are none so selfish as those that do not wish to pay" (Even a meaningful but ultimately only a contributory amount) YES NI in the past was squandered, YES financial returns from privatisations were squandered (by the Thatcher government I might add, could have been invested into a sovereign wealth fund, but no...) YES Brown flogged off the gold at a discount rate, YES Brown ended tax relief on pension investment returns, which will affect me too I might add. All piss poor. BUT don't you get it? THAT was THEN, THIS is NOW. Tell me please, exactly the rationale WHY should I pay for old age care for you NOW?? (Capitals for emphasis only) If you want better healthcare and socialcare you should at least pay a contribution towards the cost which is exactly what paying NI contributions on pension income would do. 5% is not too much to ask given the almost exponentially rising cost and those under the current working income threshold of 768 per month would be exempt. Whats wrong with that? apart from greediness? Right I'm done with you lot now. Go play amongst yourselves or maybe that's with yourselves, I'm sure the grammer police that thrive here will be along to correct me in their efficient, pedantic and ultimately pointless way. Cheerio!!
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 22:31
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That would be GRAMMAR police, capitals for emphasis only.
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 22:39
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
Cheerio!!
Miss you already Privy Jet
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 22:59
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
Miss you already Privy Jet
I don't, chap's a c0ck. Can't spell, can't carry a convincing argument and has his head up his backside most of the time. Do hope he's not a pilot, his CRM must be crap.

Just saying
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 21:35
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post
I don't, chap's a c0ck. Can't spell, can't carry a convincing argument and has his head up his backside most of the time. Do hope he's not a pilot, his CRM must be crap.

Just saying
Thankyou!! That's really a fabulous compliment. i mean that. If you agreed with me I wouldn't know what to do with myself. I'm a "c0ck" according to you , so by default that makes you either a pu$$y? or an a$$hole? Seriously though, one word about CRM. CRM exists for large operations where people need to grit their teeth & bite their tongue with people they have to work with for a few hours at a go. Small scale operations are different, we recruit the right people that fit it & we have a fab time. Small fleets in big airlines are also great. I suggest you go polish that shiny head of yours; it might remove some selfish "know it all" arrogance & instill some intelligent reasoning. As Albert Einstein said "Avoid negative people, they have a problem for every solution". Don't bother replying I'm off to fulfill my professional task.

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Old 10th Jan 2019, 23:01
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Taking a decision 12 ish months ago, If I remained at weight as was then I was a definite type 2 diabetes future patient plus the knees and back ache would be a constant. Have a sweet tooth which didn't help weight.

Working away a lot so took a clear decision to lose weight, not through mega exercise but eating better. Stayed in hotel but never had a breakfest in 10 months there, coffee and pastries when got to work, hot meal at lunchtime and a sandwich after spending some time in pool in the evening. Also became a constant weigher. This focused the mind.

Now roughly 10kgs less than i was a year or so ago, back and knees rarely pain me and really do feel a lot healthier. This year will start to do more exercise to back this up.

In respect of the "NHS save 500,000", guy in supermarket queue looked at Mail headline and just commented, not saving anybody just postponing the F******* inevitable for a bit.
Kinda mirrors my own escapades, after years of contracting took a [very] low paid job to be outside and err physical work.

6 months later 11kg down fitter and more supple, down to simple physical work, fresh air, reduced food intake and LOTS of fresh water. Type 2 clear.
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 22:38
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Originally Posted by Private jet View Post
Don't bother replying I'm off to fulfill my professional task.
See You - Wouldn't want to be You
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Old 12th Jan 2019, 16:23
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I was trying to work out your background- we're about the same age I suspect. I don't think you were military, did they refuse you? Then I considered the airlines, but as you implied, being a team player and CRM wouldn't suit you, so they probably would have eased you out.

I wonder, were you the fat kid who was always picked last at games?


If you agreed with me I wouldn't know what to do with myself. I'm a "c0ck" according to you , so by default that makes you either a pu$$y? or an a$$hole?
Nope, that's just you demonstrating poor logic.

one word about CRM. CRM exists for large operations where people need to grit their teeth & bite their tongue with people they have to work with for a few hours at a go.
Really?

Don't bother replying I'm off to fulfil (there, I sorted your spelling out as well, I know you regard people who do that as somehow better than you) my professional task.
This did make me laugh, I do wonder how you can consider yourself a professional?

Oh, and why on earth would you think my head is shiny?

Last edited by Harley Quinn; 12th Jan 2019 at 16:39.
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Old 13th Jan 2019, 23:24
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Smoking is down to a hard core of about 15% of the population. Drinking is still a problem in certain demographics and this can be seen at chucking out time in any city.

Sugar is the big area of concern together with sedentary lifestyles and fast food. A day spent sitting in an office, a litre of Coke and a Big Mac for dinner, followed by an evening in front of the TV is going to take its toll sooner rather than later.

There was a documentary a few years ago about diets around the world, the worst was a Pacific island where the population lived lives on processed food and diabetes was epidemic. The best was an Italian village where the nearest supermarket was 50 miles away.
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Old 14th Jan 2019, 20:38
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Re smoking - I think it is a cyclical thing with generations but certainly up here in scotland - it is MUCH higher than 15% of the locals who smoke.
We live on a pedestrian 'rat run' to the local schools and you would be extremely depressed to see the number of young kids smoking,I personally cannot believe that anybody smokes these days
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 00:01
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https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/adultsmokinghabitsingreatbritain/2017

In 2017, the proportion of current smokers in the UKwas 15.1%, which equates to around 7.4 million in the population. The latest figure represents a significant reduction in the proportion of current smokers since 2016, when 15.8% smoked.Jul 3, 2018
Scotland would be worse than the rest of the UK on almost any index.
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Old 15th Jan 2019, 10:27
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Originally Posted by longer ron View Post
Re smoking - I think it is a cyclical thing with generations but certainly up here in scotland - it is MUCH higher than 15% of the locals who smoke.
We live on a pedestrian 'rat run' to the local schools and you would be extremely depressed to see the number of young kids smoking,I personally cannot believe that anybody smokes these days
Not so much amazed that anyone smokes these days, nicotine is, after all an extremely addictive drug that is hard to get off (I'm not, and never have been a smoker by the way); what grieves me is the shear number of teenagers puffing their way to and from school. Are they really that dim, naive, or just at that stage of their life of the opinion they are indestructible?
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