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Why the Obsession with Autonomous Driving

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Why the Obsession with Autonomous Driving

Old 8th Dec 2018, 21:56
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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There are a few scenarios which should be made more entertaining with an autonomous car:
  • Launching a boat.
  • Parking, say, a glider trailer, between two others.
  • Entering a car park with a height restrictor with a couple of bicycles on the roof.
  • Travelling around and parking in the typical boggy field which constitutes a car park at festivals, airshows etc.
  • Getting up on wheel ramps.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 22:00
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
In our last District we had Call Connect. Basically a smaller bus that you could call and would connect you to the main route.

We also had the 'ghost ' bus. The problem is the bus needed to taken shoppers in in the morning, usually full, has gone out empty. Having brought shoppers and workers home at 5 returns to depot empty. During the day there will be early returning shoppers. Now utilisation crops up. Ideally you will use a small bus during the day but this means the larger bus is standing empty. Or you could run two small buses early and late but this might need more drivers.

Nothing is simple.

​​​​
If you run a continuos service through the day people will use. Double up if needed at peak times or different buses. Make public transport profits untaxable and or invest Govt money in it.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 22:20
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mechta View Post
There are a few scenarios which should be made more entertaining with an autonomous car:
  • Launching a boat.
  • Parking, say, a glider trailer, between two others.
  • Entering a car park with a height restrictor with a couple of bicycles on the roof.
  • Travelling around and parking in the typical boggy field which constitutes a car park at festivals, airshows etc.
  • Getting up on wheel ramps.
Am I missing something, or is it really intended that these autonomous vehicles will not have a "manual" mode?
Maybe even a "limp" mode or "alternate law"?
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 22:30
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
Am I missing something, or is it really intended that these autonomous vehicles will not have a "manual" mode?
Maybe even a "limp" mode or "alternate law"?
Porsche and BMWs will have limp D**k mode.............. oh wait that is just the driver.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 23:53
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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...or doing 50mph along narrow Gloucestershire lanes in my 2002 Volvo automatic.
Please advise me if you ever come to Cornwall on holiday, and I will avoid the narrow Cornish lanes for the duration. I don't want my 2001 Volvo automatic to be hit by your 2002 Volvo automatic! Trouble, is the 6' "hedges" that line these single lane roads are actually thinly disguised stone walls and there will be nowhere for me to go when you come around the corner doing 50!
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 01:51
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Well, I live in Singapore and the standard of driving here is so poor, I think it would be an improvement to stop them driving themselves. Given the population is about 5.6m, land area less than 300 sq miles, they routinely have 150,000 accidents a year here.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 02:11
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mechta View Post
There are a few scenarios which should be made more entertaining with an autonomous car:
  • Launching a boat.
  • Parking, say, a glider trailer, between two others.
  • Entering a car park with a height restrictor with a couple of bicycles on the roof.
  • Travelling around and parking in the typical boggy field which constitutes a car park at festivals, airshows etc.
  • Getting up on wheel ramps.
Ford already has a 'backing assist' available on their pickup trucks that can do a better job of those first two than many human drivers. Eventually you'll see sensor equipped trailers that talk to the vehicle to tell it where the trailer needs to go - at which time they'll be able to equal even the best human driver (and they won't need a spotter to tell them where to go). For the third one, the sensors at the car park will warn the vehicle that it's too tall - which would be a dramatic improvement over today's idiot drivers who regularly smack car park roofs (and overpasses) when they neglect to check clearances.
Many of you are making the common error of basing the future on current technology, not what's going to be developed by clever people. How many people predicted 30 years ago what cell phones have morphed into? I recently took delivery of a new BMW - I passed on getting any of the optional driver's aids, but it still has impressive capabilities to tell me if I'm messing up (a few of which I'm not even sure how it does it - and my expertise is in control systems!)
After decades of steadily improving road safety, the accident and death rates have started going back up due to distracted drivers paying attention to their phone instead of the road.
We're just scratching the surface of what autonomous vehicles will be able to do. Soon we'll have vehicles talking to each other - doing things like warning that the leading car is slowing or turning, or that there is some sort of problem ahead. When you have a group of vehicles talking to each other, they'll be able to do things such as follow much more closely since they don't need to account for reaction times - and the traffic carrying capacity of the major roads will increase dramatically.
It's going to take a while for the infrastructure catch up, but I foresee a future where non-autonomous vehicles will be considered a hazard and will be banned from major roads.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 02:26
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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I look forward to viewing the traffic flow around the Arc de Triomphe when driverless vehicle are the norm. It's already highly entertaining (as a pedestrian innocent bystander).

Factually - as we seem to be discovering in aviation - as automation moves in, human skills become rusty and may even totally desert whoever is at the controls (or steering wheel) it all turns to porridge. I'm already aware of one situation which could have turned out very badly when friend's expensive 4WD's automatic safety features and cruise control went their own ways, leaving him to go for the brakes to avert a potential catastrophe.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 06:13
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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How will the different systems interact with each other I wonder, say when a Chinese AI car and a German AI car come face to face at 50 mph down a wet country lane? How will blame be apportioned?
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 06:19
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps we should agree on which level of autonomous vehicles we are discussing - there are 5 levels defined. Level 5 is probably only suited for motorway / urban use. Level 4 for most other environments & lower levels for more regional & remote area use.

Savings to society as a whole are projected (in Australia alone) to be in the billions of dollars a year (about a 90% reduction in road fatalities for starters).

30 years (?) from now only the wealthy will be able to afford to drive - insurance premiums will to too expensive for us plebs
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 08:26
  #51 (permalink)  
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From time to time a feature in my car stops working. Sometimes is is trivial such as the clock has reset the hours to 12. Then you notice the sat nav bug is tracking South as I drive north.

Now that could be entertaining if I was in a car train. The solution is to stop and reboot the computer.

I had another sat nav issue around Southampton. It would lock up. It might have been a general mapping error or a glitch in the downloaded data but the only consistency was Southampton and not a particular spot.

And somewhere in the thread above was talk of totally autonomous pods. At least in a single city coherence should not be an issue.

We have all come across routed down steps, through bollards, over walls etc. I accept that better AI systems will know when one car finds the error or new one way street and informs all local traffic and updates a central server. That will make Brexit seems as simple as a walk in the park.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 08:42
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
How will the different systems interact with each other I wonder, say when a Chinese AI car and a German AI car come face to face at 50 mph down a wet country lane? How will blame be apportioned?
You mean like the internet? Or radios? Or ATC? There are countless systems that work seamlessly across international borders - all it takes is some smart people to agree to a basic framework. That is one of the more trivial issues to be solved.
Besides, it's not going to be that hard to come up with autonomous cars that are better than most human drivers - the bar is currently pretty low...

Oh, PN, 90% of what's making Brexit a mess is egos and politics. The actual technical stuff is fairly straight forward.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 08:55
  #53 (permalink)  
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You mean like the internet? Which is broadly compatible but treated differently in a multitude of platforms.

Or radios? Provided the all use the same transmission protocol - AM, FM, digital and have sufficient channel separation or bandwidth.

Or ATC? With huge human interaction.

There are countless systems that work seamlessly across international borders - all it takes is some smart people to agree to a basic framework. For instance military Link systems. The major problem there is system upgraded developed by a wealthy country which creates major improvements at a cost that can not be afforded by a poor country.

That is one of the some of the issues to be solved. But progress will be extremely slow and cautious. One solution, as in aircraft, is zoned in which only compliant vehicles are permitted.

I will just end with two examples of global incompatibility 110v/220v AC or DC and LHD/RHD.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 09:59
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Tankertrashnav View Post
Trouble, is the 6' "hedges" that line these single lane roads are actually thinly disguised stone walls and there will be nowhere for me to go when you come around the corner doing 50!
And my car had a dent to prove it. Even though the person driving at the time knew perfectly well that that particular bit of vegetation on that particular corner contained that particular rock.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 10:16
  #55 (permalink)  
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I have zero experience with autonomous vehicles (not even 'park assist' other than the beeping proximity sensors - which seem possible to confuse).
How does such a vehicle receive instructions?
Does one input a postcode?
My satnav is vague when the actual destination is reached (no doubt because postcodes are not pinpoint specific but area specific).
What - after reaching the destination? Does the vehicle attempt to return to base for further instructions?
Perhaps the autonomous vehicle selects a random route and destination that it fancies? Or does it just shut down and await further instruction?

I think we should be told . . .
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 10:46
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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I've had autonomous driving for years. I receive instructions from Mrs H and off we go.

Used to drive up and down to London frequently, I'd get home and think, I don't remember driving through X. It was as if I had an internal auto pilot that got me home. Anyone else experience this?
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 10:55
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by G-CPTN View Post
I have zero experience with autonomous vehicles (not even 'park assist' other than the beeping proximity sensors - which seem possible to confuse).
How does such a vehicle receive instructions?
Does one input a postcode?
My satnav is vague when the actual destination is reached (no doubt because postcodes are not pinpoint specific but area specific).
What - after reaching the destination? Does the vehicle attempt to return to base for further instructions?
Perhaps the autonomous vehicle selects a random route and destination that it fancies? Or does it just shut down and await further instruction?

I think we should be told . . .
Try googling "What3Words" for a different perspective?
It may not be perfect but sheds a light on what may be possible.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 11:01
  #58 (permalink)  
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Used to drive up and down to London frequently, I'd get home and think, I don't remember driving through X. It was as if I had an internal auto pilot that got me home. Anyone else experience this?
Quite often cycle familiar routes on auto pilot and not particularly remember the boring bits but deal perfectly safely with junctions, helping traffic overtake, unexpected hazards, etc; and if anywhere near Biggin Hill have an ear cocked for the sound of a Merlin engine. Don't drive that much these days so tend to concentrate more because I am aware I'm a bit rusty and usually not familiar with the car I'm driving.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 11:09
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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I might have passed you a few times en route to Hastings.
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 14:00
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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The internal auto-pilot/not remembering parts of a journey is very common, particularly if you frequently drive the same route at the same times of day (i.e. commuters, delivery drivers with a 'round' etc).
While not ideal (!), it's interesting that it's possible to navigate complex road junctions, roundabouts and multi-lane one way systems apparently without noticing you're doing it, and having only a sketchy memory, if any, of it afterwards
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