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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 23rd Dec 2018, 16:33
  #1921 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
And there it is, the moral bankruptcy of the Brexiter. Let's starve the Irish to get our way on the shambles we set in motion. If you deployed your mega galactic brain for even half a minute it would be apparent what a repugnant position you're advocating.

And if YOU had studied geography, you might have thought about the border in Northern Ireland before pursuing your undeliverable right wing multibungle but you didn't & now we're all in the mire.
Have you heard Varadkars speeches over the last 18 months? Have you heard him say anything supportive of the UK, or even concilliatory, post the Brexit vote? Nope, me neither.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 16:42
  #1922 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
And there it is, the moral bankruptcy of the Brexiter. Let's starve the Irish to get our way on the shambles we set in motion. If you deployed your mega galactic brain for even half a minute it would be apparent what a repugnant position you're advocating.

And if YOU had studied geography, you might have thought about the border in Northern Ireland before pursuing your undeliverable right wing multibungle but you didn't & now we're all in the mire.
Oh, the outrage! So you're fine with medical shortages and any other potential negative impacts from a no deal that might affect the UK. But you're not so keen if that also impacts an EU member state? Mmmm, strange logic there.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 16:44
  #1923 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Have you heard Varadkars speeches over the last 18 months? Have you heard him say anything supportive of the UK and our position, post the Brexit vote? Nope, me neither.
So you're motivated by a mixture of pettifogging resentment & a good dose of rule Britannia. Keep it coming, it's highly entertaining! By the way, tell you who I have heard pipe up for Brexit this week: Putin, After all, he bought & paid for it. If you were any kind of patriot, you'd be asking hard questions about that, but you don't, do you?



Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Oh, the outrage! So you're fine with medical shortages and any other potential negative impacts from a no deal that might affect the UK. But you're not so keen if that also impacts an EU member state? Mmmm, strange logic there.
Durrrr! You voted leave mate, not me,
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 16:49
  #1924 (permalink)  
 
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Gypsy Queen

I have lost both trust and respect for the incumbent authorities, as have so many people. With this loss comes the increased possibility of public insurrection. Of course I'm gratified to learn that those notionally in charge are planning contingent action, but when this (in)action includes the scrapping of Boris's water cannons and the embarrassingly pathetic response to a simple drone incursion at Gatwick, (something pilots have been predicting for years, governments shamefully have ignored and the police seem to have collared the wrong people anyway), I have to say that I have little confidence in this sorry administration's ability satisfactorily to manage any outcome - particularly when the hapless Grayling is involved. We have become a nation emasculated by incompetence, of which the human misery of Gatwick and the deranged mismanagement of Brexit are but two very sad examples
A second recent post with which I entirely agree. We are all being dragged along, by all parties, in a manner which might lead the country into avoidable, widespread misery. We are not yet there, but I'm unable to identify a person/persons who could be capable of steering us in a direction that will restore a form of stability that will both be enduring and satisfy the populus (avoiding the term majority!). In the autumn of my innings, I'd like to think I will fade away in the knowledge that not all was lost.

Meantime, I'll enjoy what's left - particularly that in the cellar.

Healthy New Year

Last edited by jindabyne; 23rd Dec 2018 at 17:25.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 16:54
  #1925 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
So you're motivated by a mixture of pettifogging resentment & a good dose of rule Britannia. Keep it coming, it's highly entertaining! By the way, tell you who I have heard pipe up for Brexit this week: Putin, After all, he bought & paid for it. If you were any kind of patriot, you'd be asking hard questions about that, but you don't, do you?





Durrrr! You voted leave mate, not me,
No, to be clear, i've no agenda against the Irish or any other individual EU member state - just merely reminding you that "no deal" isn't the EU pain free scenario the Guardian might have you believe. It's as much in their interest as ours to come to a negotiated settlement, that's all I'm saying. The Russia hogwash doesnt even merit a response, sorry.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 16:57
  #1926 (permalink)  
 
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much of Ireland's trade with its EU friends uses HGVs and they have to pass through another little Island (called the UK) on their road-borne way to and fro. The UK is about to leave the EU and that could cause a LOT of problems for the island of Ireland.
Fear not, looks like they are working on a cunning plan

Brexit busting Ferry
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 16:58
  #1927 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Yep....

The UK does this or that, so the EU must reciprocate, despite the fact that the EU and all its sheep insist that migration is socially and economically of hugest benefit to everyone.
And there you have it; many may say they want immigration restricted but it might be a bargaining for a positive for the EU.
​​​​​​
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 17:10
  #1928 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
No, to be clear, i've no agenda against the Irish or any other individual EU member state - just merely reminding you that "no deal" isn't the EU pain free scenario the Guardian might have you believe. It's as much in their interest as ours to come to a negotiated settlement, that's all I'm saying. The Russia hogwash doesnt even merit a response, sorry.
Yeah? Because it looks like you're like totally cool with it from here, You must think people got off the last banana boat.

Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
Did you study Geography at school Sprogy? In case you didn't know, the UK isn't the only island nation in the EU, and one of the others is called Ireland. And much of Ireland's trade with its EU friends uses HGVs and they have to pass through another little Island (called the UK) on their road-borne way to and fro. The UK is about to leave the EU and that could cause a LOT of problems for the island of Ireland. A no deal Brexit really isn't advantageous for anyone, but if we need to force the issue to win a few concessions then I see no harm in taking it to the wire (from the UKs point of view anyway).

Another linky...
You're so UKIP I can see the purple from here!
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 17:30
  #1929 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Yeah? Because it looks like you're like totally cool with it from here, You must think people got off the last banana boat.



You're so UKIP I can see the purple from here!
The EU have been utterly intransigent in the "negotiations" to date and even darn right insulting - remember that high handed tweet from Tusk, for example? I do feel the EU negotiating team have treated us with a lack of respect, yes, and I doubt I'm the only one that holds that view. As for Ireland specifically then they are our closest neighbours and we trade massively with them and we do share a lot of common values, or at least I'd like to think we do. I get they are in a difficult position, being particulalrly pro-EU, however the odd supportive comment or just public words of understanding would not have gone amiss, but EU politics is a dirty game it seems.

Not sure what your point is about UKIP? If you mean the UKIP of 2016 then, yes, I would have classed myself as a "supporter", now, not so much. But really it's no more reprehensible than voting Labour these days, is it? Just a different set of (relatively) extreme views. Like I've said in prior posts I dont personally associate myself with any of the current crop of political parties, as none of them seem a good match for my particular brand of weird and wonderful beliefs (surprising, or what)
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 17:35
  #1930 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Yeah? Because it looks like you're like totally cool with it from here, You must think people got off the last banana boat.

You're so UKIP I can see the purple from here!

Lost me there.....

I do, sincerely, hope that isn't another attempt at racial stereotyping....And abuse.....
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 17:38
  #1931 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
I used to fly for an airline that ran a schedule into Belfast. Thankful were we that we also ran one out of it.
The Irish are the oldest enemies of the English north of France and south of Scotland. Excise them, begone with them. They all have a free entry ticket to the USA anyway.
This post, by the way, is not abusive or anti Irish. It just states some absolute facts.
It's a shame, or there again it's possibly your salvation, you only managed a 45mins ( or whatever ) turn round ( City or Aldergrove ? ) in Belfast because you could have met some of the locals and enjoyed their hospitality.....albeit certain areas of Belfast may not be quite as hospitable as others I would agree. However, personally I enjoyed my time in NI and likewise my visits to the South. Sort of helps if you can talk to, and with, rather than at people.

Talking at people is a well established British trait when such people are viewed as being lower down the British clarse system or are viewed as foreign, be this in their own country the British are visiting or vice versa.

This approach may also help explain the skills of those supposedly negotiating the "easiest deal in history ".
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 17:46
  #1932 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
Lost me there.....

I do, sincerely, hope that isn't another attempt at racial stereotyping....And abuse.....
I've been enjoying this healthy debate with Sprogget so much I missed the humour you spotted... Imagine it, a UKIP gammon at loose on the banana boat, with some Putin thrown in for good measure as well! Looks like old Sprogy needs to sit back and relax, with another imported EU beer or two
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 17:50
  #1933 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn View Post
The EU have been utterly intransigent in the "negotiations" to date and even darn right insulting - remember that high handed tweet from Tusk, for example? I do feel the EU negotiating team have treated us with a lack of respect, yes, and I doubt I'm the only one that holds that view. As for Ireland specifically then they are our closest neighbours and we trade massively with them and we do share a lot of common values, or at least I'd like to think we do. I get they are in a difficult position, being particulalrly pro-EU, however the odd supportive comment or just public words of understanding would not have gone amiss, but EU politics is a dirty game it seems.
It never ceases to amaze me how many leavers exhibit such a massive sense of entitlement in expressing outrage that having decided to leave the European union, the EU, AMAZINGLY went out of their way to protect the interests of their members. It's staggering that an apparent grown up should fail to grasp what is a very basic tenet of self interest. It feeds directly into the equally false narrative that by extension, Varadker should be batting for the UK. Now, far too late, it's dawning on leavers that they've set themselves against 27 nations, 450m people & hold practically none of the cards. By leaving, you effectively forced the UK to take a knife to a gunfight & at some point, logic dictates you'll have to accept this but no, it's the EU being 'intransigent'. What a perverse view of the world.

You just cannot own your own actions can you? Always someone else's fault that you voted leave & the other parties involved didn't immediately roll over & give you everything you wanted.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 17:51
  #1934 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by wiggy View Post

Fear not, looks like they are working on a cunning plan

Brexit busting Ferry
Which means less HGV traffic on the M4, M25 and M2.
Someone finally found an advantage of Brexit. Well done!
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 17:55
  #1935 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by andrewn
Did you study Geography at school Sprogy? In case you didn't know, the UK isn't the only island nation in the EU, and one of the others is called Ireland. And much of Ireland's trade with its EU friends uses HGVs and they have to pass through another little Island (called the UK) on their road-borne way to and fro. The UK is about to leave the EU and that could cause a LOT of problems for the island of Ireland. A no deal Brexit really isn't advantageous for anyone, but if we need to force the issue to win a few concessions then I see no harm in taking it to the wire (from the UKs point of view anyway).

Another linky...
And there it is, the moral bankruptcy of the Brexiter. Let's starve the Irish to get our way on the shambles we set in motion. If you deployed your mega galactic brain for even half a minute it would be apparent what a repugnant position you're advocating.

And if YOU had studied geography, you might have thought about the border in Northern Ireland before pursuing your undeliverable right wing multibungle but you didn't & now we're all in the mire.
And there you have it. Two opposing views. Each of which is a tad non-sensical, and only serves to come to disagreement across the divide. Pub stuff!
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 19:14
  #1936 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by jindabyne View Post
Gypsy Queen



A second recent post with which I entirely agree. We are all being dragged along, by all parties, in a manner which might lead the country into avoidable, widespread misery. We are not yet there, but I'm unable to identify a person/persons who could be capable of steering us in a direction that will restore a form of stability that will both be enduring and satisfy the populus (avoiding the term majority!). In the autumn of my innings, I'd like to think I will fade away in the knowledge that not all was lost.

Meantime, I'll enjoy what's left - particularly that in the cellar
Steady on, jindabyne! I'm significantly older than you but I'm nowhere near ready to set the DI to 27 yet! Despite what you read here from the pinko naysayers, there is reason to be sanguine. We'll get there. These things often develop a natural gravity and arrive at the optimal destination neither because of nor in spite of the febrile antics of the antagonists and I suspect such might be the case here.

Unashamedly am I one of the group defined by that lightweight wannabe David Cameron's "Fruitcakes, Looms and Racists". Except, of course, I am none of the above. His message, typifying the contempt in which the establishment held the people, wasn't just political; it was cultural and the insult was understood. It was but one of many factors affecting our liberal democracy, prompting the revolt of 2016 in which 17,410,742 of us said "Bollocks". Brexit always was as much an expression of antipathy towards the elite and the entitled mainstream politicians as it was about a future relationship between the UK and the EU. It was a characteristically British iteration of a much wider global condition, most obviously seen in France, Spain, Sweden, Italy and Germany and usually known as "populism". It overturned the established order in Brazil and, of course, the United States - but perhaps I shouldn't mention the last! We are not of Les Sans Culottes but we are facing a not-dissimilar tyranny and I should not be at all surprised if there was a public reaction to the continued disregarding of the popular will.

There are many, perhaps the majority, who have no experience of life before the insidious influence of the EU and thus might fail to comprehend the deep-seated distrust and loathing of this ghastly institution held by those who remember living in an independent and sovereign country, proud of its national identity. We should so much like to have it back again. Please?
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 19:36
  #1937 (permalink)  
 
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There seems to be an assumption here, by certain members, that a second referendum will bring in a different outcome.

Bear in mind that many people in the UK do not own a company, have a holiday cottage, have a relative who works in the EU, possibly can't afford a holiday, let alone one in Spain, etc..

A bit like the guy who is bombed out of his home in Baghdad, Damascus or Kabul.

The ordinary "man in the street" may decide that Brexit is/isnot for him.

We, on both sides of the arguement, seem to think we have the high moral ground.

Perhaps that is not reality!







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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 20:07
  #1938 (permalink)  
 
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But that's the sad thing. It isn't those who have holiday homes abroad etc who stand to lose out. It has already been established that it's the Leave voting areas that will cop it economically. When Nissan, Toyota and Honda decide to up sticks and relocate in Hungary or Slovenia to access the market that they came here for it won't be Moggsy or Boris losing out it will be the poor beggars in Sunderland and Derby.
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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 20:22
  #1939 (permalink)  
 
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The large car manufacturers may well have relocated East anyway, given the lower costs of labour in certain EU countries. I believe the next Land Rover Defender is going to be built in Slovakia for this very reason, despite it's U.K. heritage/ roots.

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Old 23rd Dec 2018, 20:51
  #1940 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by C195 View Post

The large car manufacturers may well have relocated East anyway, given the lower costs of labour in certain EU countries. I believe the next Land Rover Defender is going to be built in Slovakia for this very reason, despite it's U.K. heritage/ roots.



Correct, and I was going to post a similar response to yours but I'm tired of batting of the same nonsensical, but well meaning, posts As you point out, the large GlobalCo's are primarily interested in a ready supply of cheap labour, short term investment incentives (i.e.bungs) and a stable and lax / low cost tax regime. Everything else is window dressing, including any short term inconvenience caused by us dropping out of the FTA (assuming that happens).

Slovakia is a great case in point, where they will do almost anything to attract inward investment from car manufacturers, even if that means breaking the EUs own rules...
JLR - Slovakia
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