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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:14
  #1741 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Apologies, I see where you are coming from now, all the experts who are speculating on the outcome and are correct in their assumptions are remain and there are none who can hold to that same level of astuteness and outlook on the exit side, or is it they are just outnumbered.
One, fairly even handed analysis. This stuff is literally a Google search away in huge volumes. Why not read a little?

https://www.theweek.co.uk/fact-check...t-really-means
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:23
  #1742 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Apologies, I see where you are coming from now, all the experts who are speculating on the outcome and are correct in their assumptions are remain and there are none who can hold to that same level of astuteness and outlook on the exit side, or is it they are just outnumbered.
Occam's razor. They are for remain because they are experts.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:42
  #1743 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post



Why? MP's are there as our elected representatives to make / implement decisions based on the wishes of their electorate, If they disagree with it or not, that is not their job, their job is to carry out those wishes.
There's the dilemma. You will also here MP's say that they also have to ensure that their constituents are not harmed by decisions made in Parliament. So if you really believe that your constituents will be harmed by Brexit, you may vote against their wishes and risk deselection.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 09:55
  #1744 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
One, fairly even handed analysis. This stuff is literally a Google search away in huge volumes. Why not read a little?

https://www.theweek.co.uk/fact-check...t-really-means
Another lovely assumption from you, and could be considered a bit insulting, you have no I idea what I do, and what I read, or for that matter my level of intelligence compared with you or anyone else, however thanks again for the information reference Google, however most of the experts opinions are usually have the caveats of maybe, could, might, it is my opinion. There are also those who state it as fact on both sides of the debate and neither are more right or wrong, however the assumption that remain is right and exit is wrong is a leap of faith.
,
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:05
  #1745 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Grayfly View Post
...risk deselection.
This will be the May legacy. Intimidating the House, the Other Place, even members of her own party, and claiming it is the will of the people. This is not a mature democracy. The other day a Tory MP was threatened with deselection for having the courage to state what he believed was his duty. If this is how a caretaker Prime Minister manages MP's in her own party, how can she ever regain public trust to rush through a 'managed no-deal'.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:24
  #1746 (permalink)  
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The other day a Tory MP was threatened with deselection for having the courage to state what he believed was his duty.


The other day a Labour MP was threatened with deselection for having the courage to state what he believed was his duty.


Momentum’s national coordinator has in effect called for the deselection of four Labour MPs who voted with the Conservatives on a Brexit amendment , arguing there was “no room” for them in the party.

Laura Parker, the leader of the pro-Corbyn pressure group, accused Kate Hoey, Frank Field, John Mann and Graham Stringer of having “stood in our way” as Labour tried to bring down the government in a vote on the trade bill that was won with a majority of six on Tuesday night.


Quite so.
Vote UKIP for string and stable government?
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:26
  #1747 (permalink)  
 
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how can she ever regain public trust to rush through a 'managed no-deal'.
But that is what was voted for, to pull out of the EU end off, the idea of a soft brexit retaining parts of the EU only really appeared after the referendum.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:36
  #1748 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Exrigger View Post
Another lovely assumption from you, and could be considered a bit insulting, you have no I idea what I do, and what I read, or for that matter my level of intelligence compared with you or anyone else, however thanks again for the information reference Google, however most of the experts opinions are usually have the caveats of maybe, could, might, it is my opinion. There are also those who state it as fact on both sides of the debate and neither are more right or wrong, however the assumption that remain is right and exit is wrong is a leap of faith.
,
Okay. If I'm wrong on the experts, post up your links that show a no deal WTO benefits the country in any way. I've left you plenty of room to show I'm wrong, so fill your boots.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 10:38
  #1749 (permalink)  
 
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By the way, there's no such thing as a 'managed' no deal. There is only no deal, the absence of a deal. a non deal, the deal that is dead. Any adjective tacked onto the front of no deal is a meaningless slogan designed to fool people into believing that particular failure is somehow under some form of control. It isn't.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 11:00
  #1750 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
But that is what was voted for, to pull out of the EU end off, the idea of a soft brexit retaining parts of the EU only really appeared after the referendum.
To which I reply in the words of David Cameron ... "What is you medium term plan".

We know his plan was to inflict austerity, and the message from May is 'the beatings will continue until morale improves'.

# sprogget

The words 'managed no-deal' were deliberately put in the same sentence to underline what passed for government policy earlier this week.

Time to pause this whole process. It is not in anyone's interests to proceed on this basis. A true leader would make it a priority to purge subversive elements from their party, not be held hostage to their demands.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 11:04
  #1751 (permalink)  
 
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History shows us time & again attempts to appease the mentalist end of the Conservative party rarely end well. On that, we agree.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 11:04
  #1752 (permalink)  
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Sprogget is right. A managed no deal has the same connnotation as supervised sex.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 12:27
  #1753 (permalink)  
 
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Two articles, just for those who may be interested:

https://brexitcentral.com/world-trad...est-option-uk/

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/0...der-wto-rules/

Obviously, one can link to the opposite view, which no doubt will be the only correct view, as there is more of them, which does not indicate that quantity means quality, or correctness of links, and that applies to both sides of the debate.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 14:06
  #1754 (permalink)  
 
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You talk of quality but link one article from January 2017 & another from a Patrick Minford disciple from the Economists for free trade, who for the benefit of the cheap seats, are an entirely discredited outfit. My bad though, I should have insisted on a credible analysis instead of any old Game of thrones rubbish from the dim & distant past.

The economists for free trade, ladies & gentlemen.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8533021.html
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 15:01
  #1755 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
.......I should have insisted on a credible analysis instead of any old Game of thrones rubbish from the dim & distant past.
Sprogget
Dipping in from time to time to this thread, I don't think there is any prospect of you changing your mind on this - regardless of the argument. Forecasts by what could be termed 'Remain' supporters have been wide the mark too.

You're not Pace by any chance are you?

Regards
Batco
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 15:22
  #1756 (permalink)  
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There's peaceful protest, there's not so peaceful protest...... and then there's the vermin of the extreme right .

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...porters-hitler
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 15:44
  #1757 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BATCO View Post
Sprogget
Forecasts by what could be termed 'Remain' supporters have been wide the mark too.

Yes indeed. I posit you won't find anyone credible from the government itself down who forecasts a positive impact on the economy from Brexit in any form. I am persuaded by credible sources. Others prefer Minford & George Osborn in 2016. You can choose whatever side you want but the overwhelming weight of evidence puts people like me on the right side of the debate. But blue passports made in France, so you know, cool.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 15:55
  #1758 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
The remain 'faction' is half the country mate. Or more likely two thirds of it by now, given the absolute shambles this right wing disaster project has been revealed to be.
Really? I know a fair number of people, no remained have changed their minds and the leavers, in the face of EU intransigence have hardened their stance.
​​​​
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 16:08
  #1759 (permalink)  
 
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Corbyn keeps piling on the lies, one after the other.

After his shameless performance over "Stupidwomangate", he claimed on the BBC this morning that the press had ignored the death of a homeless maan at Westminster in order to concentrate on his sexist utterance.

This was a blatant lie as all the mainstream news outlets including broadcast, web based and print covered the tragic event.

Now it is being reported that one of his MPs, Ivan Lewis, has resigned over Corbyn's anti-Semitism.

The rot is well and truly setting in.
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 16:18
  #1760 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
Yes indeed. I posit you won't find anyone credible from the government itself down who forecasts a positive impact on the economy from Brexit in any form. I am persuaded by credible sources. Others prefer Minford & George Osborn in 2016. You can choose whatever side you want but the overwhelming weight of evidence puts people like me on the right side of the debate......
Sprogget
I'm no particular fan of Minford et al. I do, however, think your assessment of what constitutes a credible source somewhat subjective. Remember the Treasury and OBR pre-referendum forecasts?

Regards
Batco
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