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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 19th Dec 2018, 11:02
  #1661 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 1,133
Well said Mr or Ms Sprogget . So many people voted on the basis it doesnt really affect me without realising that it affects the entire UK economy even if the closest they get to Europe is driving past an airport will suffer and will therefore affect them.

The appalling ineptness of the government to have achieved not one thing in the past two and half years is shameful-take back control to these people are you mad.

For a rational experienced based view of the whole thing watch Michael Heseltine's terribly sad interview on Channel 4 - a former MP , Minister deputy PM and a Peer and a successful business man and a life long dyed in the wool conservative putting the whole thing ina nutshell and nearly in tears over the stupidity and vanity of deluded yet ill intentioned people in a his own party.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 11:19
  #1662 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Well, it seems the EU may have been reading my post #1660. They have come up with interim measures for post split:
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Brexit: European Commission implements ?no-deal? Contingency Action Plan in specific sectors
And I have to say, it all sounds rather sensible. (At least, on the face of it).
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:01
  #1663 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I don't understand this hysteria over stockpiling goods such as food, medicines etc. We are talking about imports to the UK here. H.M. Government has the say over what comes in and what doesn't, rates of duty etc. In the event of a government sponsored catastrophe, it is within their writ to say "Yeah, let 'em all in" or otherwise. In other words, stockpiles' 10,000 mile long jams at the ports etc are entirely within the government's control. Are they really so stupid that they have not yet figured this out?
Speaking of stupid, I am puzzled over the attitude of (I think) the EU attitude toward setting up a post-Brexit trade deal with the UK. They have said on more than one occasion that this can not be negotiated until post-Brexit. Why? Surely it is common sense that, when you see an undesirable set of events looming up in the distance, one should start to plan for, perhaps even agree, an arrangement to cover the next step. Said agreements to be held dormant with an automatic entry into force a minute after the current arrangements cease?
Having read this, I would be much more careful about using the word stupid with such gay abandon if I were you.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:13
  #1664 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: England
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I have just listened to a number of leading business organisations saying that the government has and is doing irreparable damage to Britain businesses primarily due to the utter chaos that surrounds the way that Brexit is being mismanaged.

Good to hear that the Conservatives are on the side of business.....
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:37
  #1665 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by Buster15 View Post
I have just listened to a number of leading business organisations saying that the government has and is doing irreparable damage to Britain businesses primarily due to the utter chaos that surrounds the way that Brexit is being mismanaged.

Good to hear that the Conservatives are on the side of business.....
Real opportunity here for a new centrist party to form, business and Europe friendly, whilst at the same time ensuring that sensible employee rights are retained and where appropriate enhanced. Could get the finance it needs to succeed by giving a home to the millions that are currently given to the Conservatives - they are certainly no longer the friend of business, and Labour certainly aren't - and hardly ever really have been.

How much long terms damage has been done to the Conservative cause i simply don't know, but come a GE, with a new party in place their fighting fund could be seriously diminished - and it would serve them right if it was.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:41
  #1666 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: LGW
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The government is very good at enticing hate amongst its population. I have been quite happily living in the UK for the last two decades, with a British wife. I still hold the Dutch nationality, as there is no real reason to change.

In all my time in this country I have been a high rate tax payer and only claimed benefits for 4 weeks when Monarch Airlines went bust in 2017. I have no issues at all with how the Brexit vote turned out as it is the right of every British national to vote as they see fit.

However first we get Mrs May with her comment about Europeans jumping the queue. Today we have my own MP (Sajid Javid) saying that the new immigration policy end the preferential treatment of Europeans! Are these two to stupid to realise that we are not jumping the queue or receive preferential treatment. As long as the UK has been in the EU it has been a two way street. Or have the British in The Netherlands also jumped the queue or received preferential treatment? No of course not, they just made use of an option available to them.

Sorry for the rant. Until now I have only had one idiot tell me to F*** Off to my own country. Fortunately I know enough to realise that this is just one idiot and is not representative for the rest of the population. Now that the idiots in power start implying that we are here because we jumped the queue or received preferential treatment it leaves a bit of a sour taste.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:41
  #1667 (permalink)  
 
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Having read this, I would be much more careful about using the word stupid with such gay abandon if I were you.
I don't use the word 'stupid' with gay abandon. If I use the term, I use it because it is exactly what I mean to say.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:44
  #1668 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Chez Sprog
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Okey dokey. I was minded to leave it but if you go back & read what you wrote, it's blindingly obvious you have not even the slightest idea what you're talking about. You advocate the government (and I can't quite believe I'm having to type this) should relax all border controls, allow everything in no questions asked to mitigate a situation they created & then call them stupid for not thinking of this already. It's not them who's being stupid...
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:45
  #1669 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
I don't use the word 'stupid' with gay abandon. If I use the term, I use it because it is exactly what I mean to say.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

Thinking of the word stupid, hardly ever do I agree with comrade Corbyn, but if he did say what he is alleged to then I do on this occasion. And if I were him, if he did say that i would refuse to apologise - the truth often hurts.

She is undoubtedly a very stupid woman!
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:48
  #1670 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
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Originally Posted by Flying Torquewrench View Post
The government is very good at enticing hate amongst its population. I have been quite happily living in the UK for the last two decades, with a British wife. I still hold the Dutch nationality, as there is no real reason to change.

In all my time in this country I have been a high rate tax payer and only claimed benefits for 4 weeks when Monarch Airlines went bust in 2017. I have no issues at all with how the Brexit vote turned out as it is the right of every British national to vote as they see fit.

However first we get Mrs May with her comment about Europeans jumping the queue. Today we have my own MP (Sajid Javid) saying that the new immigration policy end the preferential treatment of Europeans! Are these two to stupid to realise that we are not jumping the queue or receive preferential treatment. As long as the UK has been in the EU it has been a two way street. Or have the British in The Netherlands also jumped the queue or received preferential treatment? No of course not, they just made use of an option available to them.

Sorry for the rant. Until now I have only had one idiot tell me to F*** Off to my own country. Fortunately I know enough to realise that this is just one idiot and is not representative for the rest of the population. Now that the idiots in power start implying that we are here because we jumped the queue or received preferential treatment it leaves a bit of a sour taste.
Think yourself lucky, most of us are going to be essentially prisoners in "Brexitland".
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 12:54
  #1671 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

Thinking of the word stupid, hardly ever do I agree with comrade Corbyn, but if he did say what he is alleged to then I do on this occasion. And if I were him, if he did say that i would refuse to apologise - the truth often hurts.

She is undoubtedly a very stupid woman!
As well as being a proven Jew hater his bigotry now includes mysogyny and sexism.

The Left eventually show their true colours.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 13:27
  #1672 (permalink)  
 
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I understand there are people who sincerely and passionately believe the result of the decision to offer the electorate a choice between remaining in the EU and leaving it, and a promise that the Government would implement that decision was wrong. They believe they are right to obstruct the resultant process, and are effectively allies of the EU who also oppose the result (for their own self-interest). The EU has been single minded in their resolve to try to have the decision reversed.

On the other hand, some of us look at the EU, whose central dogma is to create a centralised, thoroughly undemocratic superstate designed from the outset to benefit mainly the German and French. We also look at the economic instability of forcing weak economies (in the process ignoring their laid down fiscal rules) to the detriment of (e.g.) Greece, the refusal of Italy to accept EU diktats in spite of threats, the Government of Hungary being threatened in a similar manner for daring to enact the manifesto on which they were elected and so on. (For clarification, I would not have supported that manifesto - but I am not a Hungarian voter). We ask whether the EU is really stable, whether it is capable of reform, and where UK would be in 10 years time as one of the few net supporters of the grand vision, while having only 4% of the votes on policy.

Their condition for UK being 'allowed' to leave is the effective break up of the UK. It is possible that their intransigence will waver when the reality of a no-deal acrimonious exit approaches. There are signs of a more intelligent approach from Brussels emerging. I live in hope for sensible compromises to emerge, but am equally optimistic about the long term future of an independant UK.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 13:35
  #1673 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Southwold
Age: 67
Posts: 58
So let's get this straight. If Boris had been speaking and he said "Stupid man" that would have been unacceptable? Obviously I'm not in step with snowflakeism. Odd that Siti is though. Would have put him down as utterly unreconstructed.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 13:57
  #1674 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
I understand there are people who sincerely and passionately believe the result of the decision to offer the electorate a choice between remaining in the EU and leaving it, and a promise that the Government would implement that decision was wrong. They believe they are right to obstruct the resultant process, and are effectively allies of the EU who also oppose the result (for their own self-interest). The EU has been single minded in their resolve to try to have the decision reversed.

On the other hand, some of us look at the EU, whose central dogma is to create a centralised, thoroughly undemocratic superstate designed from the outset to benefit mainly the German and French. We also look at the economic instability of forcing weak economies (in the process ignoring their laid down fiscal rules) to the detriment of (e.g.) Greece, the refusal of Italy to accept EU diktats in spite of threats, the Government of Hungary being threatened in a similar manner for daring to enact the manifesto on which they were elected and so on. (For clarification, I would not have supported that manifesto - but I am not a Hungarian voter). We ask whether the EU is really stable, whether it is capable of reform, and where UK would be in 10 years time as one of the few net supporters of the grand vision, while having only 4% of the votes on policy.

Their condition for UK being 'allowed' to leave is the effective break up of the UK. It is possible that their intransigence will waver when the reality of a no-deal acrimonious exit approaches. There are signs of a more intelligent approach from Brussels emerging. I live in hope for sensible compromises to emerge, but am equally optimistic about the long term future of an independant UK.

What you call obstruction, others view as responsible intervention as a result of truths being revealed over the passage of time. That you say in the next breath the EU has consistently tried to block the UK's departure is flat out wrong. Not slightly, not a little but 100% an untruth.

The prime minister made her choices and those were to leave the single market, the customs union & end freedom of movement. Those choices and those choices alone created the irreconcilable issue that is the Northern Ireland border. it has nothing to do with the EU taking a pound of flesh but it's entirely in keeping with the worst Brextremist m.o. of always blaming someone else for their actions.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 14:03
  #1675 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: England
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

Thinking of the word stupid, hardly ever do I agree with comrade Corbyn, but if he did say what he is alleged to then I do on this occasion. And if I were him, if he did say that i would refuse to apologise - the truth often hurts.

She is undoubtedly a very stupid woman!

It was just a 'Captain Mainwaring' moment from JC and if the cap fits etc. It pretty quickly got out of hand in the virtue circling stakes with even one 'person' who was not of male gender quoting 'me too' at the end of the point of order statement.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 14:09
  #1676 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
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Originally Posted by sitigeltfel View Post
As well as being a proven Jew hater his bigotry now includes mysogyny and sexism.
So which are you claiming isn't true - that she is stupid or that she is a woman? There is ample evidence of both. But I can see why you personally might resist the idea that it is acceptable to identify stupid people for what they are. And before bleating about Corbyn's anti-semitism you might want to consider the amount of time you spend [on here] trying to incite Islamophobic hatred and reflect on where your remarks sit on the pot/kettle chromaticity index.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Corbyn fan - IMHO the man is a demented gibbon with the intellectual prowess of a fossilised brontosaurus turd. But he's not wrong ALL the time (the principle of infinite monkey scribblings may have come into play).

PDR
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 14:28
  #1677 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

Thinking of the word stupid, hardly ever do I agree with comrade Corbyn, but if he did say what he is alleged to then I do on this occasion. And if I were him, if he did say that i would refuse to apologise - the truth often hurts.

She is undoubtedly a very stupid woman!
As someone who agrees with you more often than not, I am disappointed to read that.
The one thing that she has done wrong is to become Prime Minister on a ticket of leaving the EU, after she had sensibly voted against Brexi​​​t. Since then she has worked long and hard to get the best possible exit deal from the EU. It is of course nothing like the deal that the Brexit liars promised their dupes, but still the best that the EU were ever going to allow.
She is also greatly restricted in her movements by the Loony Tunes ERG party members.
For what she has managed to achieve she deserves some credit, and you are unreasonable to call her stupid.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 14:44
  #1678 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...peeding-charge

Labour MP guilty of lying over speeding charge

A Labour MP has been found guilty of repeatedly lying to avoid a speeding ticket in a case that could have major repercussions for Jeremy Corbyn.

Fiona Onasanya, the MP for Peterborough, was accused of colluding with her brother to avoid three points on her licence by claiming that a former lodger had been driving her Nissan Micra when it was found travelling at 41mph in a 30mph zone. Police established the former lodger was in Russia at the time of the offence.

The trained solicitor was accused at the Old Bailey of inventing a series of lies over 17 months to hide the fact that she was driving the car. Following a retrial, she has been found guilty of perverting the course of justice, a charge which usually results in a custodial sentence.

The verdict raises the possibility of a by-election* in Peterborough, a seat Onasanya won by 607 votes at the general election. She beat the Conservative incumbent, Stewart Jackson, in a constituency with a high leave vote.......

(*The last MP to be found guilty of a similar offence was Chris Huhne. He was forced by his party to resign and a by election was called. )
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 14:46
  #1679 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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The Speaker, Bercow, seems to be increasing hot water over his handling of the JC/May "stupid woman" debacle......

https://order-order.com/2018/12/19/l...-stupid-woman/

https://order-order.com/2018/12/19/s...ack-on-bercow/
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 14:54
  #1680 (permalink)  
 
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Location: 51.50N 1W (ish)
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What you call obstruction, others view as responsible intervention as a result of truths being revealed over the passage of time. That you say in the next breath the EU has consistently tried to block the UK's departure is flat out wrong. Not slightly, not a little but 100% an untruth
Many of the 'truths' of the remain faction are forecasts of disaster by the same forecasters who have proved wildly wrong in the past.

As far as EU trying to block our depature, I call the negotiating tactic of refusing point blank to discuss future trading arrangements before the 9 month process of haggling down a €100 billion ransom to a mere €39 billion was completed to mind. The EU's own rules REQUIRE a post Article 50 to 'negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union'. But the EU always chooses which of its own rules it chooses to follow. The later tactic of creating a hard border between NI and ROI (a soluble problem unless you are Barnier) unless you break up the UK - an unacceptable demand - and then repeatedly saying 'you can always cancel BREXIT' - not a 100% lie, merely a point of view.
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