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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:24
  #1621 (permalink)  
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Anna Soubrey's constituency voted to leave the EU and Nick Bole's Grantham and Stamford voted 61% to depart and 39% to remain. One could hardly claim then that either one of these MPs has represented their electorates.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:44
  #1622 (permalink)  
 
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It was a free vote. No MP was obliged to vote along party or constituency lines. The not representing their constituency argument is void.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:48
  #1623 (permalink)  
 
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During my time at Catterick in the 1960s it was quite common for calls for volunteers during times of seriously "inclement" weather. Sometimes, hundreds of us would be turned out to get food etc to isolated farms. We were all volunteers but we all know how volunteering works in the Army! Still, nobody begrudged it and, as far as I know, nobody was asked to pay for our help.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:50
  #1624 (permalink)  
 
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It was said in an article about future leaders for the party that Anna Soubry only held her seat with an 863 majority, so it won't take much to kick her ass out of office if she ignores her electorate, people remember.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:50
  #1625 (permalink)  
 
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Sprogett: Don't be daft! Regardless of whether a vote is free or whipped, the prime duty of an MP is to represent their constituents. The way elections work is like this: We had a vote. You won and are now our representative. Now go to Westminster to represent me and mine there.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:51
  #1626 (permalink)  
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They did, however, get elected for the Conservative party and in accordance with the Conservative party manifesto at the last election.

Exit the European single market and customs union but seek a "deep and special partnership" including comprehensive free trade and customs agreement”
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 18:57
  #1627 (permalink)  
 
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You've confused the last GE with a referendum. One required the candidates to stand on a manifesto, the other was a free vote open to the entire electorate. No MP was required to vote in the referendum according to their constituents wishes. This really is a matter of historical fact.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 19:12
  #1628 (permalink)  
 
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Wasn’t the last GE after the Referendum and the manifesto was as stated.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 20:51
  #1629 (permalink)  
 
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I always understood that Members of Parliament are elected to represent the interests of (all) their constituents in Parliament as they, the MPs, see fit. They are not Delegates selected and sent to Parliament to deliver a message from ony those constituents who voted for them.

If an MP believes that Brexit is an existential threat to his constituents then, irrespective of the how the constituency voted, it is perfectly proper for him to vote in what he sees as his constituents best interests. (‘He’ is used here as gender neutral).

Of course, in the real world, the problem is Party Manifestos. If an MP Is elected on a manifesto commitment to leave the EU, the Single Market and the Customs Union then he is honour bound to deliver on that promise. If he cannot he should resign his seat and stand for re-election as an independent.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 20:59
  #1630 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
You've confused the last GE with a referendum. One required the candidates to stand on a manifesto, the other was a free vote open to the entire electorate. No MP was required to vote in the referendum according to their constituents wishes. This really is a matter of historical fact.
It's not about how they voted in the referendum, it is about how they vote now, in Parliament. In the referendum they were voting as a citizen, in Parliament they should be voting as the MP of their constituents and doing so in accordance with the majority wish of said constituents.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 21:10
  #1631 (permalink)  
 
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And how do we know the wishes of their constituents? They are almost certainly different from June 2016. And we know how to find out don't we? We all know that this is going to end in Ref2. Let's just get on with it.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 21:41
  #1632 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
It's not about how they voted in the referendum, it is about how they vote now, in Parliament. In the referendum they were voting as a citizen, in Parliament they should be voting as the MP of their constituents and doing so in accordance with the majority wish of said constituents.
No, that's not what the rules say, they should be voting in the best interests of their constituents, which is not always the same thing. MPs are not delegates.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 22:00
  #1633 (permalink)  
 
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Quite. The undercurrent of this sort of observation is a MP's being a fag paper away from treachery etc.etc. I'd like to think it's ignorance over revisionism but I'm not sure.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 22:10
  #1634 (permalink)  
 
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Many of the last dozen or so contributions put me in mind of the great Edmund Burke who made it quite clear that Members of Parliament were not mere delegates but were representatives who ought to be free to make their own judgement:
To deliver an opinion, is the right of all men; that of Constituents is a weighty and respectable opinion, which a Representative ought always to rejoice to hear; and which he ought always most seriously to consider. But authoritative instructions; Mandates issued, which the Member is bound blindly and implicitly to obey, to vote, and to argue for, though contrary to the clearest conviction of his judgement and conscience; these are things utterly unknown to the laws of this land, and which arise from a fundamental Mistake of the whole order and tenour of our Constitution. Parliament is not a Congress of Ambassadors from different and hostile interests; which interests each must maintain, as an Agent and Advocate, against other Agents and Advocates; but Parliament is a deliberative Assembly of one Nation, with one Interest, that of the whole; where, not local Purposes, not local Prejudices ought to guide, but the general Good, resulting from the general Reason of the whole. You chuse a Member indeed; but when you have chosen him, he is not Member of Bristol, but he is a Member of Parliament.
From Burke's Speech to the Electors of Bristol.
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Old 18th Dec 2018, 22:53
  #1635 (permalink)  
 
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Sarah Wollaston now joined the other two prepared to resign the whip. Maybe Gerry Adams & co might be prepared to attend a no confidence vote.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 01:30
  #1636 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
When you speak to Germans that tends to be the response with regard to Brexit, they simply don't understand why we voted to leave, but mostly they also take the view that we've made our bed, and we're going to have to sleep in it.
Have the same conversation with a Greek or Italian and you will experience plenty of understanding.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 06:14
  #1637 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
It was said in an article about future leaders for the party that Anna Soubry only held her seat with an 863 majority, so it won't take much to kick her ass out of office if she ignores her electorate, people remember.
And if your clearly heartfelt wish to "kick her ass out of the office " came to fruition , politics, and her party, would lose one of the very few current politicians who is actually representative of why we elect MP's . Anna Soubry is a lady who can both articulate and construct her arguments and opinions in a manner that doesn't involve the usual political clichés and hyperbole.

Here's last nights C4 News......most of the items concerned the now very real prospect of a "No Deal " exit and involved interviews with people who may, strangely, have a far greater understanding of what this entails than some of the JB unicornscenti . .....note also the denial, in part, about using troops...this despite the news being widely reported across numerous media sources.

Take you time therefore, please watch the item, and then tell us why, with such strong convictions and who is clearly concerned with the UK's future, you feel she should be kicked out as an MP...

https://www.channel4.com/news/progra...018/12/18/1900
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 07:21
  #1638 (permalink)  
 
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Just a quick reminder. There are now 100 stockpiling days to Brexmas.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 07:37
  #1639 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
It was said in an article about future leaders for the party that Anna Soubry only held her seat with an 863 majority, so it won't take much to kick her ass out of office if she ignores her electorate, people remember.
She is my MP, and we are a swing constituency; one of the few where your cross on the general election ballot paper actually makes a difference. It swings regularly between Lab and Con, and the LibDem vote is by no means insignificant. It also has a sizeable student population in and around Beeston which in a Brexit scenario adds another dimension.

I am really pleased that she has publicly stated she will resign the Conservative whip; I hope that many others follow her lead. I will support her if she does. If the Tories engineer a no deal exit from the EU at the behest of her extreme right wing they are no better than Labour being driven by militant tendency or momentum and I will never vote for them again, whoever the candidate is. They are slavishly driving the UK, it's economy and people over a cliff into uncharted waters in the name of "the will of the people" without asking the people if they want to be driven over the cliff and that is unforgivable. If they wish to do that they should ask the public first.

Whatever the government decides after they lose the vote in January - as they surely will, they must put it to the people in a new referendum either:-
  • The UK / EU deal or remain

or
  • No deal exit or remain
If people vote to jump off the cliff, fine, I won't like it anymore than I do now, but that will be it. if they decide to remain, then I'd be more than happy with that, as everyone knows, and I'm sure that leavers would be pee'd off but at least we will all have voted with our eyes firmly open.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 08:08
  #1640 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
And if your clearly heartfelt wish to "kick her ass out of the office " came to fruition , politics, and her party, would lose one of the very few current politicians who is actually representative of why we elect MP's . Anna Soubry is a lady who can both articulate and construct her arguments and opinions in a manner that doesn't involve the usual political clichés and hyperbole.

Here's last nights C4 News......most of the items concerned the now very real prospect of a "No Deal " exit and involved interviews with people who may, strangely, have a far greater understanding of what this entails than some of the JB unicornscenti . .....note also the denial, in part, about using troops...this despite the news being widely reported across numerous media sources.

Take you time therefore, please watch the item, and then tell us why, with such strong convictions and who is clearly concerned with the UK's future, you feel she should be kicked out as an MP...

https://www.channel4.com/news/progra...018/12/18/1900
I saw C4 news the first time around and was struck by the way the interviewer gave the government minister a hard time ,constantly interupting him but gave free reign to Soubry to get her message across without any interuptions at all.
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