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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 14th Dec 2018, 11:45
  #1381 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
EU economy is way greater than UK and some of trad UK does will find itself repalced within EU. EU have to do nothing but respect choice of UK voters.
Exactly. And if the UK voters say that the deal is not worth 39bn....
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 11:48
  #1382 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
d. Another reason why Russia was happy to finance the Brexit campaign.
More garbage.

Just like Google getting asked this week about Russian influence on 2016 in US Congress.
The gasped when they found out that Russian media had spend $4,700 in total in promoting stories on google, that is actual $ not millions of them.
Stories were about election and both condidates and other stories as well.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 11:48
  #1383 (permalink)  
 
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Trouble with a second referendum is that it only helps if leave wins, and the detritus that is left behind is the UK's domestic problem. If leave win again here we are. Same with a general election if no overall majority is the result. The only certain path is hard brexit but that wouldn't get through parliament. So hard brexit by default or a referendum possibly followed by hard brexit, assuming they framed the question right.
Seems clear TM isn't going to be part of a solution but she's intent on getting the way. In the meantime, what's happening about all the other business.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 11:48
  #1384 (permalink)  
 
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I have, very sadly, to agree with VP959.

Our European friends and soon to be ex-partners are seriously p'd off with the UK We have always dragged our heels within the EU, claimed special privileges and generally been a rectal trauma. Then we embarked on Brexit which has been been the worse aggravation of all.

​​​​​​In the unlikely event that we managed to cancel art.50 now, we would legally be back to where we started. But the other nations would never trust us again. Our credibility with the EU (and with the rest of the world) has been destroyed. You may be sure there will be no favours when the next financial review comes around.

We are out of the EU.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 11:52
  #1385 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post

All thee feedback on Sky this morning from Brussels would seem to indicate the EU is getting resigned to the fact that the UK can't make a decision and isn't prepared to give any more time or leeway.
EU knows UK is leaving they just want them to get it over and done with and stop F*****g messing about. 2 1/2 years of UK political and economic inaction.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 11:56
  #1386 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
I have, very sadly, to agree with VP959.

Our European friends and soon to be ex-partners are seriously p'd off with the UK We have always dragged our heels within the EU, claimed special privileges and generally been a rectal trauma. Then we embarked on Brexit which has been been the worse aggravation of all.

​​​​​​In the unlikely event that we managed to cancel art.50 now, we would legally be back to where we started. But the other nations would never trust us again. Our credibility with the EU (and with the rest of the world) has been destroyed. You may be sure there will be no favours when the next financial review comes around.

We are out of the EU.
If UK stays then it will have less impact than Malta, whatever it comes up with will be just chucked back at them with "What are you going to do, LEAVE".hahahahaha

UK has shot themselves in both feet.

If UK economy was thriving and exporting massively etc etc then may have a case. It is not and uses City of London to balance the books. Amazing how many jobs have moved overseas since the vote and many institutions are saying little about the job moves.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 11:58
  #1387 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
More garbage.

Just like Google getting asked this week about Russian influence on 2016 in US Congress.
The gasped when they found out that Russian media had spend $4,700 in total in promoting stories on google, that is actual $ not millions of them.
Stories were about election and both condidates and other stories as well.
Where did Arron Banks' £8m come from?
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 12:05
  #1388 (permalink)  
 
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They claim to have been working on it for two years.....impression of competence has been destroyed for sure. Still cant figure out what options TM thinks she now has. Perhaps put a range of options to the House to flush everything into the open, but why wasn't that done a year back other than to think TM ignored parliamentry arithmetic and over estimated her own ability. She got us here without bringing us along, or at least keeping people informed, we don't like where we are, so she has to go. Plan a seems to be to wait until 21Jan and then step back after the inevitable loss, Plan b, whatever it is, can't be decided on until Plan a is off the table.
Only way out other than hard brexit is if Labour decide to back her plan and they have no interest in that. Profoundly unhelpful to have delayed the vote.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 12:05
  #1389 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
More garbage.

Just like Google getting asked this week about Russian influence on 2016 in US Congress.
The gasped when they found out that Russian media had spend $4,700 in total in promoting stories on google, that is actual $ not millions of them.
Stories were about election and both condidates and other stories as well.
How surprising that you jumped in to defend your sponsors. But I think they will expect better of you. The Russian money behind Brexit has been well reported. I see it's been mentioned by others .

As for your classic whataboutery diversion to the US, most of the influence was exerted through Twitter and Facebook, and doesn't show up in any accounts.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 12:21
  #1390 (permalink)  
 
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Name this film.
How to prevail over that which you refuse to acknowledge the existence of. Do you understand? When I came into your life your life was over. It had a beginning, a middle, and an end. This is the end. You can say that things could have turned out differently. That there could have been some other way. But what does that mean? They are not some other way. They are this way. You're asking that I second say the world. Do you see?
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 13:37
  #1391 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
How surprising that you jumped in to defend your sponsors. But I think they will expect better of you. The Russian money behind Brexit has been well reported. I see it's been mentioned by others .

As for your classic whataboutery diversion to the US, most of the influence was exerted through Twitter and Facebook, and doesn't show up in any accounts.
Continued personal abuse of me becasue I refuse to go with the media narrative is all you are parroting.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 14:25
  #1392 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by racedo View Post
Continued personal abuse of me becasue I refuse to go with the media narrative is all you are parroting.
No personal abuse from me, racedo. I'm not calling you names. The forum rules forbid it.

Is it not a fact that you spring into action when Russia is mentioned?
Is it not a fact that you just diverted discussion from the UK Brexit to Google in the US?
Those were the matters I commented on.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 15:20
  #1393 (permalink)  
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The hypothetical presumption that Russia financed the Brexit moment seems no less plausible than the indisputable fact that the UK government subsidised the Remain campaign.
It seems a reasonable presumption that Russia would welcome a Marxist government in Britain and that, by admission of personal preference, is exactly what it will get when Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne are elected.
McDonnell's proposed economic reforms, the nationalisation of everything, the confiscatory policies and the corporation tax structuring, would be illegal as a member country of the EU. This of course poses Cprbyn with one of his quandaries; how does he admit that his intentions to economically restructure Britain cannot happen with continued membership of the EU. The man and his front bench are, by definition, Brexiters. Since they are also Marxists and Marxism is a quasi Russian economic philosophy (for want of a better thousand page or so discussion) it seems entirely reasonable to suppose that Russia gave economic support to the Brexit movement. That support however would have been given with the intention of furthering the Labour party and Marxism in Britain and not, per se, in support of Brexit.
Still, at the end of the game I don't suppose it'll make much difference. Under the May plan, Britain ends up as a satellite of the EU. Under the Corbyn plan it ends up as a Russian satellite.
The discussion as to which of those two empires is now, or has been in the past, or will become in the future, the most evil empire under the sun hasn't happened yet.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 15:27
  #1394 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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The only flaw with that analysis is the presumption that Putin and his clique are Marxists, which I doubt severely.

Russian patriots undoubtedly, but they saw what Marxism did to their country, and the Russian Orthodox Church, and are all billionaires (some more openly than others) doing well out of capitalism.

That doesn’t mean they don’t support idiots like Corbyn however - the USSR did throughout the Cold War, but as useful idiots rather than allies or possible rulers.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 15:45
  #1395 (permalink)  
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Well yes, I agree that flaw. I think that the rulers of Russia probably have more of a grasp of reality than many who warp and weft on the power front of the Labour party, the useful idiots, as you so rightly call them.
The local way to obtain a solution to the quandary is simple, taught to me by my Dutch nanny nearly a hundred years ago. Upon reflection, I suppose it might have been one of my German nannies. In this case the one who was arrested for soliciting late one cricket laden sultry sticky summer night in Poughkeepsie New York.
You just lock them all the MPs up in their big common room with nothing but bread and water and absolutely no heating until the entire lot of them have arrived at a unilaterally collective solution to the problem.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 16:15
  #1396 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mr Optimistic View Post
In striving so hard to avoid a border, isn't Eire risking more than it realises?
It is odd that this point has not been brought up more often in recent days. As I understand things, there currently seem to be people pointing guns at their own feet.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 16:23
  #1397 (permalink)  
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I believe I did just a couple of pages back. But if you mean in the MSM, particularly in Ireland - see here....

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/c...-37622042.html
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 16:33
  #1398 (permalink)  
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Reading the last few points it would seem that there is only one outcome - hard Brexit.

​​​​​​It was said that it is too late for Parliament to revoke Article 50.

The EU is intractable.

It is likely that Parliament would not accept the present options.

Why don't we just chuck the towel in, say OK hard it is and Ompah, ompah, stick it up Junker, and move on now rather than muck along for 3 months. A large proportion of the 52% will get what they thought they were voting for.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 16:43
  #1399 (permalink)  
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Yes indeed!
Die Hard.
The Final Exit.
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Old 14th Dec 2018, 16:54
  #1400 (permalink)  
 
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There won't be a no deal brexit. It's a fantasy for morons who would sooner shoot themselves in the face than face up to reality.
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