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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 26th Nov 2019, 14:38
  #11741 (permalink)  
 
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Well it looks like some movement in the polls. The latest Kantar saw 7% sliced off Borice's admittedly outlier 18% lead. But ICM yesterday saw a reduction to 7 points representing a tiny 2.2% swing since 2017. My feeling is that, judging by the fact that Mrs EM's phone has been buzzing all week with communication from 50's born women that Corbyn reprise of Thatcher's Right to Buy bribe is hitting the mark.
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 14:42
  #11742 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 View Post
She speaks for a majority of people in Scotland who want to be free of England and to be in the EU.
Your opinion may be different, but they are entitled to theirs.

Sooner or later Scotland will leave the UK and will apply to join the EU. How that works out will then be none of our business.

As for the fishing, our leaving the EU will make little difference to who actually catches the fish.
On what basis do you think the speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland with regard to wanting the leave the UK?

I've done a little googling and the results of fairly recent polls would seem to indicate that the majority of Scots would vote to remain part of the UK. Here's two for example:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...e-uk-1-5005983

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-shows-six-10/

Last edited by yellowtriumph; 26th Nov 2019 at 15:02.
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 14:52
  #11743 (permalink)  
 
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What about another referendum in England, with the question : 'Should England stay in the Union ?'...
I mean, in the Union of four Nations of course...
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 15:23
  #11744 (permalink)  
 
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Well I wouldn't bother about blowing up roads etc as part of you're resistance, there is enough potholes already
grammar, grammar, grammar .... just feeling a bit pedantic .... your (possessive) rather than you're (contraction of you are) and there are enough potholes ... because one pothole is never enough !!

I'll (I will) get my manteau (coat)
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 15:29
  #11745 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
On what basis do you think the speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland with regard to wanting the leave the UK?

I've done a little googling and the results of fairly recent polls would seem to indicate that the majority of Scots would vote to remain part of the UK. Here's two for example:

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...e-uk-1-5005983

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-shows-six-10/
Would these be polls like the ones that predicted the UK would vote to Remain?
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 16:44
  #11746 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by yellowtriumph View Post
On what basis do you think the speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland with regard to wanting the leave the UK?
Of course "she speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland that want to leave the UK", but that is not the same as saying that "she speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland"

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Old 26th Nov 2019, 17:18
  #11747 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
Of course "she speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland that want to leave the UK", but that is not the same as saying that "she speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland"
Just as "the majority of the people who voted" is not the same as "the majority of the people" (nor "the will of the people) ;-)
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 17:34
  #11748 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MFC_Fly View Post
Of course "she speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland that want to leave the UK", but that is not the same as saying that "she speaks on behalf of the majority of the people in Scotland"
Fair comment. In which case she speaks for the majority of the minority who want to leave the UK as confirmed by this BBC news page today. I suspect the margin of error would make it too close to call at this stage though.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/50552295

Half my family are Scottish and live on Scotland. None of them want to leave the UK but I could not say if they were typical. I was struck by a comment one of the family contingent made which was that during the 2014 independence referendum a lot of people who wanted to stay in the UK felt intimidated if they said do publicly and so said nothing.

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Old 26th Nov 2019, 18:05
  #11749 (permalink)  
 
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a lot of people who wanted to stay in the UK felt intimidated if they said do publicly and so said nothing.
Absolutely! There were plenty of 'Yes' stickers in windows but it would take a brave person to put up a 'No'.
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Old 26th Nov 2019, 18:48
  #11750 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver View Post
Absolutely! There were plenty of 'Yes' stickers in windows but it would take a brave person to put up a 'No'.
...and then there was a referendum in which people could vote in private and the No vote won (no thanks to Democratic Dave‘s careful consideration of what was at stake- another of his Schnapsideen).

Last edited by Torquetalk; 26th Nov 2019 at 18:59.
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 05:02
  #11751 (permalink)  
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It was always going to get messy, and dirty, the GE that is. No surprise therefore that this issue has now come to prominence .....let's conveniently ignore Islamaphobia in case some get a twinge of conscience .....and wonder why his views may not entirely be representative of the Jewish faith.

Yep...... it's a Guardian link but do note the balanced content......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...trikes-a-chord
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 07:15
  #11752 (permalink)  
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Seems like a sideways attempt to victim blame there KnC....

Meanwhile, from the horse’s mouth......

https://order-order.com/2019/11/26/c...-anti-semitic/

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Old 27th Nov 2019, 09:22
  #11753 (permalink)  
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Thanks to Sat Nav, those large gantry signs on Motorways are now for decoration only....., however, these signs have somewhere called "The North " on them some may recall.

The North........and those twee leafy shires elsewhere in the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...es-than-turkey
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 09:44
  #11754 (permalink)  
 
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Accepting that Labour has in one form or another a problem with anti-semitism, it seems to me that the rabbi got a free pass In the media for making a pretty outlandish claim: That anti-semitism in the Labour Party is sanctioned from the top. That is such an extreme position and was accepted prima facia. It seems to me that the mainstream media are being complicit in allowing this extreme position to be given credibility without any challenge to the claimant.

What is also truly odd about this exclusive focus on anti-semitism in the Labour Party, is that it is manifest that anti-semitism is driven principally by right-wing ideologies. Yet those parties on the right in the UK are also getting a free pass on this issue. UKIP and the Brexit party are highly unlikely to not harbour significant anti-Semitic elements. And if I had a pound for each of those quietly whispered anti-semitic tropes made by Conversative voters thinking they had a safe listening ear, I would have a lot of pounds. Focusing on the Labour Party as a threat the social climate in which British Jews live seems highly selective and politically suspicious.

The dialectic style of discussion means nothing is being talked meaningfully.

Last edited by Torquetalk; 27th Nov 2019 at 10:01.
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 09:55
  #11755 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
Accepting that Labour has in one form or another a problem with anti-semitism, it seems to me that the rabbi got a free pass In the media for making a pretty outlandish claim: That anti-semitism in the Labour Party is sanctioned from the top. That is such an extreme position and was accepted prima facia. It seems to me that the mainstream media are being complicit in allowing this extreme position to be given credibility without any challenge to the claimant.

What is also truly odd about this exclusive focus on anti-semitism in the Labour Party, is that it is manifest that anti-semitism is driven principally by right-wing ideologies. Yet those parties on the right in the UK are also getting a free pass on anti-semitism. UKIP and the Brexit party are highly unlikely to not harbour significant anti-Semitic elements. But this isn‘t even mentioned.

The dialectic style of discussion means nothing is being talked anything meaningfully.
There is not a level playing field here. Antisemitism has within our culture, and especially our media, a "higher tariff" than say, prejudice against Coptic Christians, Muslims, Sikhs in fact pretty well any religious / cultural group, not least as a result of the appalling atrocities committed in the mid 20th century. Even then, although they weren't the only group gassed and burnt in concentration camps, Gypsies were equally (badly) treated, but people hardly raise an eyebrow when there are often very overt attacked, verbal and physical on this group.

The Muslim kick-back against the Tories yesterday, appeared more a kneejerk reaction to counter the statement of the Chief Rabbi, and done principally to level the playing field in the election campaign following the former's attack on Labour and Corbyn.

Prejudice exists, for worse, in all parts of society, and isn't the preserve of one religious or cultural group. Without betraying any confidences, I spoke to an individual who answered that they felt they were in a group discriminated against in (UK) society. The person concerned a simply an active Christian churchgoer, and no from a fringe group. That speaks volumes.
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 09:59
  #11756 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Torquetalk View Post
Accepting that Labour has in one form or another a problem with anti-semitism, it seems to me that the rabbi got a free pass In the media for making a pretty outlandish claim: That anti-semitism in the Labour Party is sanctioned from the top. That is such an extreme position and was accepted prima facia. It seems to me that the mainstream media are being complicit in allowing this extreme position to be given credibility without any challenge to the claimant.

What is also truly odd about this exclusive focus on anti-semitism in the Labour Party, is that it is manifest that anti-semitism is driven principally by right-wing ideologies. Yet those parties on the right in the UK are also getting a free pass on anti-semitism. UKIP and the Brexit party are highly unlikely to not harbour significant anti-Semitic elements. But this isn‘t even mentioned.

The dialectic style of discussion means nothing is being talked anything meaningfully.
The gift to the right wing media is clearly evident here and the irony was mentioned in the Guardian link in my earlier post.

These allegations have been around for a number of years in one form or another, yet, strangely, they suddenly gained far more prominence at the time Corbyn's popularity was seen to be rising.......I wouldn't get overly concerned about UKIP or the Brexit ( UKIP 2 ) party because both parties have long revealed their intrinsic, and varied, bigotries .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-50567551

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Old 27th Nov 2019, 10:07
  #11757 (permalink)  
 
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I would actually be very concerned about the UKIP and Brexit parties because they position themselves with some success as speaking to the “common citizen“ and their frustrations. Deconstruct the frustration and the ideas behind it and you will find a lot of everyday ugliness.
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 10:57
  #11758 (permalink)  
 
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AT Notts

True, it isn‘t a level playing field for obvious historical reasons. I think Corbyn and his like are trying to take generic anti-discriminatory positions and thereby give an easy impression of not taking anti-semitism seriously. It took Corbyn much too long to come out and say “that is an anti-semiitic trope” in the interview with the fathomlessly-still-on-air Andrew Niel. The equation of anti-Zionist with being anti-Semitic is also an obvious political and ideological trap for Labour.

As to Christians feeling discriminated against in the UK: if you live in a bubble you can persuade yourself of anything. Christianity has been at the heart of island society for well over a thousand years. It is embedded in British institutions. That it is struggling to be relevant in a changing world and is losing its grip on the hearts and minds many younger citizens has nothing to do with discrimination. To a lesser extent this is also true for Islam in the UK.
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Old 27th Nov 2019, 11:04
  #11759 (permalink)  
 
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For those that worry over Boris Johnson being PM, if he had failed in the 2015 election, then we could of had one of the other candidates instead




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Old 27th Nov 2019, 11:20
  #11760 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
For those that worry over Boris Johnson being PM, if he had failed in the 2015 election, then we could of had one of the other candidates instead
Ha ha ha ! That's serious ?

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