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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 22nd Nov 2019, 15:35
  #11621 (permalink)  
 
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I assume that’s sarcasm about end of uncertainty (?)...hard to tell sometimes 😎
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Old 22nd Nov 2019, 19:10
  #11622 (permalink)  
 
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Watched Corbyn tonight on Question Time, he wittered on about labour will be going to negotiating a deal then putting it with a remain deal to a referendum and that will be the end of it, no 10 years etc blah blah blah, but if he negotiates a deal surely it will still need tweaking etc as will Boris's unless his deal is totally stay in.?
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 06:26
  #11623 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
Watched Corbyn tonight on Question Time, he wittered on about labour will be going to negotiating a deal then putting it with a remain deal to a referendum and that will be the end of it, no 10 years etc blah blah blah, but if he negotiates a deal surely it will still need tweaking etc as will Boris's unless his deal is totally stay in.?

Ah, but did you watch the rest of the programme ?

"QT " has always held a special place in the hearts of many of the chaps here on JB " BBC leftie bias / audience exclusively Trots / questions pre-planned by other Trots / Fiona Bruce wears a hammer and sickle bandana " and so on .

For those who probably missed it, due to the reasons above, it was well worth watching. In my never and unlikely ever to be humble opinion, "wee Nicola " came out best, followed by Corbyn .....after which it's a tie between Jo Swinson....who did a lot of apologising although she may have risen in ORAC's esteem as she likes bar charts.....well don't we all... and Boris...who did a lot of floundering

At this point a special mention for Grayfly and his previous prediction. This time, as FB observed, it did only take 3 mins for Boris to get that phrase into the debate. so yep. bang on there

Back to the programme. For many the shock and trauma will have been induced by the audience who consisted of real people, several of whom would fall firmly into the "avoid at all costs !..scroungers ! " JB condemnation by those unaccustomed to societal reality. We can only imagine the outrage at the lady with tattoos and piercings for example

. It takes a lot of moral courage to admit, live, you are a recovering drug addict and Nicola, being astute, invited her for a meeting afterwards....there again, Boris did the same with another questioner from the audience ...but very well done that lady for her admission. Nice one luv !

For all the accusations, FB did a very professional job last night and non of the party leaders were spared those awkward questions they would prefer not to be asked by her.....shame Treeza isn't still around in this respect really....she would have been really entertaining when her turn came.

We await the JB chumsandchapsscenti opinion of the programme.....which may vary somewhat from ones own. .

Last edited by Krystal n chips; 23rd Nov 2019 at 06:58.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 06:56
  #11624 (permalink)  
 
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but if he negotiates a deal surely it will still need tweaking etc as will Boris's unless his deal is totally stay in.?
Que? His plan, surely, is to negotiate a deal then put it to the electorate with 2 choices:
1.Remain in the EU
2.Accept this deal and this will be the deal that will go into effect.
Where is there a need for any tweaking? Both options indicate definite end points. Virtually a guillotine motion.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 08:48
  #11625 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
Que? His plan, surely, is to negotiate a deal then put it to the electorate with 2 choices:
1.Remain in the EU
2.Accept this deal and this will be the deal that will go into effect.
Where is there a need for any tweaking? Both options indicate definite end points. Virtually a guillotine motion.
On the face of it there's nothing wrong with his position.

BUT, Corbyn's plan is to negotiate a new agreement that encompasses inclusion in the single market and (a) customs union, while at the same time having the freedom to nationalise industries left right and centre, all of which fly in the face of EU rules. He wants his cake and eat it, which is not tenable.

Therefore his policy is doomed to failure. Labour would be better going to the electorate on the basis of a referendum on the current deal versus remain. That gives voters the clarity of what is now agreed, no ifs or buts, and remaining in the EU.

As someone who would really like to support the LibDems in their unequivocal rejection of Brexit, I find it very hard to come to terms with the policy of ripping up Art.50 without referal to the public in a new referendum. This unholy mess has been created by referendum, and if it is to be undone, should only be done through referendum. To do anything else would be totally undemocratic.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 08:52
  #11626 (permalink)  
 
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Jeremy gets a "warm" welcome in the Midlands.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politi...-dudley-votes/
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 09:09
  #11627 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post

At this point a special mention for Grayfly and his previous prediction. This time, as FB observed, it did only take 3 mins for Boris to get that phrase into the debate. so yep. bang on there

Thank you for the special mention.

It gives me some encouragement to look into a new venture for package business deals.. I already have a mouthpiece for the 'oven ready' element in adverts. It could also be used for:
Oven Ready Financial Collapse
Oven Ready Closure
Oven Ready Sell Off
Oven Ready Climate Disaster
Oven Ready Tax Haven
Oven Ready Border Closure
Oven Ready Union Break Up

Alexander BoJo has opened up so many opportunities. Sadly I can only see JC in an Orange HiViz at a large DIY outlet.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 19:05
  #11628 (permalink)  
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Grauniad: https://www.theguardian.com/politics...inium-observer

Conservatives open up 19-point lead with 47% share of the vote

The Conservatives have taken a commanding 19-point lead over Labour with less than three weeks to go before voters head to the polls, according to the latest Opinium poll for the Observer.

The news comes as Boris Johnson launches the Tory election manifesto on Sunday, a moment seen by many Conservative MPs as the most dangerous of the campaign. It was Theresa May’s botched manifesto in 2017, which included an unpopular social care policy dubbed the “dementia tax”, that played a major part in the collapse in her poll ratings.

The Tory share of the vote now stands at 47%, with Labour on 28% and the Lib Dems falling back to 12%. Also struggling is the Brexit party, which has collapsed to 3%. Underlying the Tory lead is the party’s success in attracting support from Leave voters: three-quarters of them say they would vote Conservative.......

The latest constituency-level polling by Deltapoll, published by the Observer, suggests that the Lib Dems are making inroads in specific seats, but struggling to take a lead. In the Cities of London and Westminster, Chuka Umunna is up 22 points but trails the Tories by six points. In Chelsea and Fulham, the Lib Dems are up 14 points but trail the Tories by 23 points. In Hendon, the party is up eight points but is still a distant third.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 19:34
  #11629 (permalink)  
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Which raises huge questions about the BBC selection process for the audience during a general election debate......

https://order-order.com/2019/11/23/l...ion-time-liar/
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 19:45
  #11630 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently they used the makeup of the last Parliament to decide the audience. Not sure how many were in it - but at a guess about 200, so about 100 Tories, 80 Labour, 12 SNP and 3 Liberals among them. Anyone thinking that the audience selected gave anyone an easy ride as ORAC implies clearly didn’t watch it.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 20:03
  #11631 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Which raises huge questions about the BBC selection process for the audience during a general election debate......

https://order-order.com/2019/11/23/l...ion-time-liar/
More top quality spam ORAC? Perhaps you should preface your posts with “this is a party political broadcast against the Labour Party” ?

as to the content of your link, is it not well accepted that Harold Wilson did not take a position at the last referendum? Why was the questioner making a “false claim” and a “liar” ?
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 20:21
  #11632 (permalink)  
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as to the content of your link, is it not well accepted that Harold Wilson did not take a position at the last referendum? Why was the questioner making a “false claim” and a “liar” ?
HW allowed a free vote - but he took a definitive position himself.......

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...n-not-neutral/
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 20:40
  #11633 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
HW allowed a free vote - but he took a definitive position himself.......

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...n-not-neutral/
you mean he allowed himself the same free vote afforded the rest of the cabinet? Hardly a case for calling the QT undercover Labour man a liar (assuming he was that; your source seems prone to gross exaggeration).

HWs position has frequently been discussed in recent times and by various parties (including Hattersley). They have all said he did not promote a position, remaining neutral. The rest is misleading.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 20:44
  #11634 (permalink)  
 
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Don’t think that link entirely supports your position. Seems to have been the case that Wilson was clear (at least with Hattersley) that Britain should stay in the EU, but he didn’t actively campaign publicly for it. As such while the gentleman on Question Time might have been making a claim that was debatable, to characterise it as a false claim and the man a liar is wide of the mark, and in fact is yet another symptom of the intolerant vicious nature of British politics currently, perpetuated by such as yourself.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 20:45
  #11635 (permalink)  
 
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As I mentioned earlier, Corbyn has taken a position. If people mean to say he has not taken a position on whether he will go out and bang the drum for Brexit or go out and bang the other drum to whip up support for Remain, then they should say so. His position is that he will allow the people to dictate the eventual course. I know, it is probably just a tad too democratic for some on here.
I think I touched on that point a couple of months ago when I raised the question about whether or not MPs should do the bidding of their constituents or should they hold to their dogma and tell the constituents that they know best so be quiet? It seems to me that Corbyn (for all my dislike of him as a leader) is prepared to ask the constituents what they want him to do and he will carry that out.
Johnson's position, as we all know has been consistent ever since the last time he changed his mind and I am sure will remain consistent right up to the next time he changes his mind. And I can't believe what appears to be a general decline in the national IQ. The oft repeated mantra, led by the aforementioned Mr. Johnson, is "Just Get Brexit Done! Think that through, people. If told that Brexit can be done tomorrow but every voter in the UK will immediately have to forfeit all their salaries for the next 6 months", would they all clap and say "Hoorah! At least Brexit is done". Or would they perhaps say "Wait a minute, that is not the kind of deal I wanted"? (A spot of hyperbole there but purely to demonstrate the point).
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 20:48
  #11636 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Curious Pax View Post
Don’t think that link entirely supports your position. Seems to have been the case that Wilson was clear (at least with Hattersley) that Britain should stay in the EU, but he didn’t actively campaign publicly for it. As such while the gentleman on Question Time might have been making a claim that was debatable, to characterise it as a false claim and the man a liar is wide of the mark, and in fact is yet another symptom of the intolerant vicious nature of British politics currently, perpetuated by such as yourself.
Well said, Curious Pax I too have just read the comment from Roy Hattersley, entirely in line with what you say.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 20:50
  #11637 (permalink)  
 
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Given that whoever is Prime Minister will have to act in the interests of both the minority of the population who voted to leave and the majority, perhaps ORAC would enlighten us as to how this could be accomplished without bias? Alternatively, if he feels that unthinking, single mindedness is appropriate, could he explain Johnson's admitted difficulty in selecting career advancement as his preferred choice - and, similarly, the 'fully thought-through' volte-face of the Maybot? Unfortunately there may well not be a convenient cut-and-paste reference for this, so it might require a little original thought.
Would certainly not vote for Corbyn but I prefer his even-handed intention to the juvenile, Blue Peter referenced antics of Johnson. Most strongly in memory is the response of one of Johnson's Uxbridge 'lady' constituents, when the Beeb attempted to 'vox-pop intertview' her - "that disgusting piece of toe-rag". Possibly not a candidate for ORAC's cut-and-paste album.
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 21:05
  #11638 (permalink)  
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The electorate, reportedly, would seem to disagree....
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 21:11
  #11639 (permalink)  
 
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Well, look at that! 10 minutes after I wrote about the stupidity of the phrase "Get Brexit Done", along comes Boris and gets right back into it.
A headline on the BBC web site just appeared "Tories to launch manifesto 'To get Brexit done'". Is Boris a secret reader of these pages?
No! I know! ORAC you are really Boris, aren't you? And I claim my Crackerjack pencil and 5 shilling postal order for working that out!
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Old 23rd Nov 2019, 21:55
  #11640 (permalink)  
 
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The electorate, reportedly, would seem to disagree....
It would appear that one of the major disadvantages of rural existence is the lack of up-to-date NEWS! There was silly old me being lead to believe that there WOULD BE a General Election in early December (vouchsafed by that committed purveyor of truth and honesty, Johnson) when all along it's been done and dusted and ORAC (who else?) has the result! Just goes to show, I suppose, that you can't even trust someone as wedded to the truth as our recently installed PM! I am becoming seriously concerned over the verity, or otherwise, of a legendary giver of presents, rumoured to be amongst us soon!
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