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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 10th Dec 2018, 14:02
  #1141 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: In the circuit
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
So. Parliament will not back no deal.

Parliament will not back May's deal

ECJ says Brexit can be revoked

May says the deal won't be renegotiated.

EU says the deal will not be renegotiated.

UK not prepared for no deal.

OTOH

May said no snap election
May said no deal better than a bad deal.

Faites vos jeux.
Although the latest report seems to be that May says the deal will be re-negotiated and she is going back to Brussels to win a legally binding assurance that the backstop won't be indefinite. Good luck with that, but if by some chance she did succeed I could see that being a deal that could get through. Although you may not agree with much that Gove says he was right in his view that the backstop has not been sufficiently explained, if we got there it would equate to no FOM, no ECJ no payments to Brussels, no CAP or CFP, and seamless trade with the single market via the customs union. That sounds like the definition of cherry picking to me.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 14:13
  #1142 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Yes, It is Brexit by any reasonable definition. May's undoing was, amongst many other failures, her insistence on irreconcilable red lines. At no point has she levelled with the public or attempted to play it straight with the EU which has led her via a lost majority, to try to be all things to all men. The only saving grace in my view is there is a tacit recognition to at least try to not shaft the economy on the way out.

It does rather beg the question is a meaningful vote only allowed to be meaningful if you're sure you're going to win it?
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 14:28
  #1143 (permalink)  
 
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TM told us that there can be no better deal. There can be no negotiation. This is as good as it gets. Now it appears sheís going to hold off the vote and go back and renegotiate. Could she be accused of misleading parliament?

Mind itís kicking off in Parliament Square. Instead of that sad EU fanatic with the Ďbrexit, is it worth ití placards, you know the guy whose probably never had meaningful employment in his life? Well itís a lot more intense down there. Itís kicking off! Some chanting to the tune of Ďachy breaky heartí by Bill Rae Cyrus from what it sound like!
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 14:29
  #1144 (permalink)  
 
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My Sister-in-Law, who I have enjoyed a cordial relationship for over fifty years just threw me out of the house because I casually remarked: Brexit is going well! She was shouting something about bombing Berlin!
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 14:34
  #1145 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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It’s sad but remainers are the bigots. I have two nephews who barely speak to me any more. It’s funny I don’t exclude those for being labour and socialism fanatics but dare to have a different opinion and you’re in trouble. And these are the types that like to lecture us on how divided the country is. Too funny.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 14:38
  #1146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CroqueMonsieur View Post
Itís sad but remainers are the bigots.
Deary me. Always someone else's fault.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 14:59
  #1147 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CroqueMonsieur View Post
Itís sad but remainers are the bigots. I have two nephews who barely speak to me any more. Itís funny I donít exclude those for being labour and socialism fanatics but dare to have a different opinion and youíre in trouble. And these are the types that like to lecture us on how divided the country is. Too funny.
I'm afraid, and it gives me know pleasure in saying this, but it cuts both ways so divisive is the whole affair.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 15:00
  #1148 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
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I’ve not met a single person who voted remain who’ve been shut off from their leaver friends and family. No doubt all in sundry on JB will come foreword and tell us how the savage racists they know who voted Leave now don’t speak to them but I’ve never heard anyone say that face to face. But such is the toxic arrogance of many remainers in that they think they’re right and anyone else who dare think differently are a lower form of life.

TM is on fighting form. Corbyn says no renegotiation of the deal is possible yet wants to renegotiate the deal. He wants to be part of the customs union but that is incompatible with his GE17 manifesto promise to end FOM. He wants to negotiate his own trade deals but knows you can’t do that whilst in the CU.

Actually Theresa is looking strong and stable in comparison!
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 15:13
  #1149 (permalink)  
 
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Comparing her to Corbyn is damning with faint praise.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 15:17
  #1150 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CroqueMonsieur View Post
Iíve not met a single person who voted remain whoíve been shut off from their leaver friends and family. No doubt all in sundry on JB will come foreword and tell us how the savage racists they know who voted Leave now donít speak to them but Iíve never heard anyone say that face to face. But such is the toxic arrogance of many remainers in that they think theyíre right and anyone else who dare think differently are a lower form of life.
This is pretty much you looking in the mirror. Get a grip.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 15:22
  #1151 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Sprogget View Post
This is pretty much you looking in the mirror. Get a grip.
No, I don’t think it is. I’m just as close to my many remainer friends, family and colleagues as I was prior to the vote. Given that it’s such an emotive subject I avoid bringing it up yet I enjoy engaging in debate when they raise the subject however as a true democrat I have not excluded and nor do I avoid any single person who voted a different way. I’ve been excluded by some and had to endure hostility even in my own home from remainers. I have never done anything of the sort to the remainers in my life. Still, it’s fewer cards to send at Christmas. Every cloud.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 15:25
  #1152 (permalink)  
 
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So where do we think this will go? It’s clear that there can be no deal without the backstop. Will it be the scope of the backstop or would it be a fixed end date on the backstop? What do we feel would help her get the deal through parliament?
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:10
  #1153 (permalink)  
 
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Get a grip. It's not going through.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:13
  #1154 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CroqueMonsieur View Post

Actually Theresa is looking strong and stable in comparison!
So, please tell us which part of this whole shambles makes TM or even her so called government look even remotely strong or stable? ????
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:19
  #1155 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CroqueMonsieur View Post
TM told us that there can be no better deal. There can be no negotiation. This is as good as it gets. Now it appears she’s going to hold off the vote and go back and renegotiate. Could she be accused of misleading parliament?

Mind it’s kicking off in Parliament Square. Instead of that sad EU fanatic with the ‘brexit, is it worth it’ placards, you know the guy whose probably never had meaningful employment in his life? Well it’s a lot more intense down there. It’s kicking off! Some chanting to the tune of ‘achy breaky heart’ by Bill Rae Cyrus from what it sound like!
My bold. She hasn't said that. She has said that she understands the concern by many of her HoP colleagues over the open ended nature of the backstop in the unlikely event it is triggered. She has said she will go back to the EU Council and Commission to see if further assurances and clarification can be obtained. Perhaps you did not see the questions session after her statement to the House? If further negotiations are forthcoming then that will be a bonus, but she is not going back to the EU to try and reopen negotiations on the present agreement.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:21
  #1156 (permalink)  
EstŠ servira para distraerle.
 
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Now that the ECJ has ruled that Britain can unilaterally revoke its invocation of Article 50, the matter becomes rather more complicated.
Imagine for a moment, if you will, the situation where Teresa May is couped to the back benches, Boris becomes PM, Rees Mog becomes deputy and Article 50 is rescinded. Britain will remain in the continental grip.
So far so good until after the festive season.
Then of course, as the business has already been dealt with by vote in Parliament, Article 50 can be invoked all over again and a new negotiating stance can begin, this time led by Brexiteers of distinction and renown.
What a thing to wish upon a dish of buttered Christmas turkey!
Sublime!
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:26
  #1157 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buster15 View Post
So, please tell us which part of this whole shambles makes TM or even her so called government look even remotely strong or stable? ????
Well any other time she would ne a shambles but like a knight in shining armour Corbyn and his cronies by virtue of being modern day labour simply make May look strong and stable.

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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:26
  #1158 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Originally Posted by cavortingcheetah View Post
What a thing to wish upon a dish of buttered Christmas turkey!
Sublime!
Or a letter to Santa, the likes of which is the defining characteristic of Brexit fanz everywhere. That said, whatever the question is, May is not the answer, She has nothing. No date for a vote, no consensus, no chance of handbagging Juncker, nothing, just a tactical gambit to play for time.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:33
  #1159 (permalink)  
 
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Then of course, as the business has already been dealt with by vote in Parliament, Article 50 can be invoked all over again and a new negotiating stance can begin, this time led by Brexiteers of distinction and renown.
According to better a better legal mind than mine todayís ruling has that little trick covered with some clever legal language. Iíll see if I can find the relevant bit of the text later but learned opinion was that no, the U.K. (or anybody else for that matter) cannot keep dipping into and out of Article 50...
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 17:08
  #1160 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by Fitter2 View Post
If there was any doubt that the ECJ was a political adjunct to the Commission, look at how this judgement (total time application to judgement about 1 month) compares to the usual 2-3 years. Anyone might think the EU is desperate to stop Brexit happening.
The rules contain an urgency process. Use of this process was requested. The court agreed to the request. The case was dealt with under the urgency process. All of which is simply business as usual.
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