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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 18th Nov 2019, 11:03
  #11521 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Not necessarily so. The German system, I believe, has a bar of 5% of the popular vote to get seats in the Bundestag. Would the BNP or Communist Party achieve that? Curiously, if PR were applied to this upcoming election a likely outcome could be a coalition of Con, Brexit and DUP forming the government. Not my choice, but that is democracy for you. At least, as with Corbyn's lot, we could at least vote them out in 5 (or less) years time.
But then would the DUP get 5% of the UK vote or the SNP and Plaid Cymru would probably all fail to get over the bar as they only stand in their respective country's yet the do represent the views of their people.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 11:20
  #11522 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
The Nip:
That's more or less what I said.BT provide the fibre to the cabinet and Virgin provide the connection from the cabinet to the house. Alternatively, if anyone thinks Virgin provide the fibre the whole way, then show me a Virgin exchange or some other centrally sited building housing all their routers, fibre optic transmitters/receivers etc.
That would be here then.
You might want to read this.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 12:06
  #11523 (permalink)  
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The subject of peerages was mentioned by Nige recently....

Lord Farage of Becton would be an apt title really........
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 12:11
  #11524 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by under_exposed View Post
That would be here then.
You might want to read this.
And here in Lewisham, London. Is that "centrally located" enough?

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Old 18th Nov 2019, 14:00
  #11525 (permalink)  
 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-5045462
General election 2019: PM puts corporation cuts on hold to help fund NHS



I rather like that, it's not that it's happening, as it would help businesses, but it's the fact he is diverting monies from one source to another shows he is keeping a hand on the Countries financial budget and that helps you build confidence in his other spending measures, unlike Labours "free Ipads" for all style budgeting that appears to be simply to bribe certain sectors of the electorate with WIFI etc and screw the economy, or the future generations that will have to pick up the tab for these extravagant spending plans.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 14:40
  #11526 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-5045462


I rather like that, it's not that it's happening, as it would help businesses, but it's the fact he is diverting monies from one source to another shows he is keeping a hand on the Countries financial budget and that helps you build confidence in his other spending measures, unlike Labours "free Ipads" for all style budgeting that appears to be simply to bribe certain sectors of the electorate with WIFI etc and screw the economy, or the future generations that will have to pick up the tab for these extravagant spending plans.
Seriously? Have you not been listening to Boris spraying the contents of the magic money tree for the last 3 months while (with this exception) refusing to provide costings to show where itís coming from?

Not claiming Labour are any better, although they do say costings for their schemes will be in the manifesto when itís published.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 16:29
  #11527 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-5045462


I rather like that, it's not that it's happening, as it would help businesses, but it's the fact he is diverting monies from one source to another shows he is keeping a hand on the Countries financial budget and that helps you build confidence in his other spending measures, unlike Labours "free Ipads" for all style budgeting that appears to be simply to bribe certain sectors of the electorate with WIFI etc and screw the economy, or the future generations that will have to pick up the tab for these extravagant spending plans.
IIRC, Boris "[email protected] Business" Johnson was calling for wide sweeping, across the board tax cuts in his Telegraph articles as recently as Sept 2018. Talk about sending mixed signals.

JAS
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 16:36
  #11528 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Effluent Man View Post
What does occur to me is that the GE actually offers a second referendum by proxy. Now Labour are offering one we can safely add together Tory, Brexit, UKIP and DUP votes as pro Brexit and all the rest as Remain. It will be interesting to see if the former falls short of 17.4 million or indeed comprises a majority.
Not so much as 17.4 as we don't know how many will have eschewed politics after the nonsense over the last 3 years. As interesting though will be the difference, again not in pure numbers but in % difference.

The numbers will still not be an exact proportion that you might expect from a referendum. There will still be remainers that vote Tory and Leavers that don't.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 19:58
  #11529 (permalink)  
 
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Numbers seem to be a tricky area for Johnson and his lot. Apart from confusing 17.4 m with a majority of the UK population, he confuses himself with the theoretical gains/losses of his tax policies. Increasing or maintaining business rates will increase tax 'take' today. a day or so ago reducung said rates will increase tax 'take'. Johnson-land is truly a curious place! ... and when is he going to get over his (unsurprising) enthusiasm for Blue Peter imagery? Hardly Saatchi &Saatchi territory!
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 22:14
  #11530 (permalink)  
 
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Compared to who? Fair point that ALL parties are promising to make free with our cash. But Corbynís plans are by an order of magnitude, a yawning plughole for the nationís finances.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 23:04
  #11531 (permalink)  
 
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Although this piece is in the Guardian, the author is better known for writing for the Mail etc, and as he states always voted Conservative. Which makes it an even more damning indictment of Johnson. It’s not just Boris Johnson’s lying. It’s that the media let him get away with it
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 23:38
  #11532 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Hussar 54 View Post
As I see and understand it, the decision to hold a referendum was pure, out and out politics by Cameron simply to avoid the Conservatives losing votes and seats to UKIP but was offered with the usual arrogance of pro-EU politicos that nobody, repeat nobody, would ever vote to leave, even though the writing was there on the wall for all to see.
What brought home to me was how disconnected Parliament was / is from their electorate, they assumed wrongly that the UK population was totally behind all the decisions they were making on our behalf and that those policies were those we put them in power to carry through.
It soon sunk in that far from it, the opposite was the truth and that unlike an election, when asking a specific question, a referendum will give you a specific answer..... Now I realise there has been claims and counter claims on both sides as to the facts put over by both sides, but that is the same with any election, if you believe everything Labour is currently offering will become a reality in the next couple of years you are naive.

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Old 19th Nov 2019, 05:54
  #11533 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post


What brought home to me was how disconnected Parliament was / is from their electorate, they assumed wrongly that the UK population was totally behind all the decisions they were making on our behalf and that those policies were those we put them in power to carry through.
It soon sunk in that far from it, the opposite was the truth and that unlike an election, when asking a specific question, a referendum will give you a specific answer..... Now I realise there has been claims and counter claims on both sides as to the facts put over by both sides, but that is the same with any election, if you believe everything Labour is currently offering will become a reality in the next couple of years you are naive.

Would that be in contrast to anything but the truth as uttered by a known serial liar............such as Boris for example ?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...siness-cartoon

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Old 19th Nov 2019, 08:11
  #11534 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post
if you believe everything Labour is currently offering will become a reality in the next couple of years you are naive.


and if you believe almost anything Johnson and the Tories offer you are naive..problem is as K n C has pointed out the media generally do seem somewhat reluctant to point out the Tory untruths...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8929076.html
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 08:35
  #11535 (permalink)  
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Wiggy, as said before, it is a question of voting for the least bad option. MSM, in your opinion, seem to be backing Johnson. I have not been viewing much of the TV news except that a few days ago it appeared to be red ties front and centre.

What is on social media may well be as influential today. Starting from the premise that politicians are economical with the truth, over paid political journalists are biased and newspapers are generally supporters of one party or the other, SM had become the channel of choice. A channel just as skewed in confirmation bias as the rest.
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 08:36
  #11536 (permalink)  
 
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Last week I had the pleasure to visit the UK once again and this time on the way back I decided to take the Sun with me on the flight.

I know the Sun is not the most objective piece of journalism but this time around it was nothing short of pure Propaganda with capital P! Herr Goebbels would have been proud.
According to the Sun:
criminal gangs from Europe would flood the UK by the hundred-thousands.
Comrad Corbynn has had close links to Islamic State, the IRA, and many other terrorist groups.
Everything the Great Leader PM Johnson touches seems to be turning into pure gold.
Some good looking young lady had exchanged her tennis partner for some other muscular dude.

Anyway, by the time I landed on the European mainland I was so scared to go of the airplane and enter this Sodom and Gommorah full of rapists and criminals. Luckily I am still alive




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Old 19th Nov 2019, 08:37
  #11537 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SaulGoodman View Post
Last week I had the pleasure to visit the UK once again and this time on the way back I decided to take the Sun with me on the flight.

I know the Sun is not the most objective piece of journalism but this time around it was nothing short of pure Propaganda with capital P! Herr Goebbels would have been proud.
According to the Sun:
criminal gangs from Europe would flood the UK by the hundred-thousands.
Comrad Corbynn has had close links to Islamic State, the IRA, and many other terrorist groups.
Everything the Great Leader PM Johnson touches seems to be turning into pure gold.
Some good looking young lady had exchanged her tennis partner for some other muscular dude.

Anyway, by the time I landed on the European mainland I was so scared to go of the airplane and enter this Sodom and Gommorah full of rapists and criminals. Luckily I am still alive




You got away lightly; you could have picked up the Daily Mail!
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 09:05
  #11538 (permalink)  
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Saul, some years ago the Sun was the paper of choice for 2.5 million D/E class readers and a steadfast Tory supporter. In 1997 they switched to Labour and put Tony Blair in power. In 2009 they changed back and the Tory party gained power against the odds. Don't underestimate its impact.
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 09:13
  #11539 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Saul, some years ago the Sun was the paper of choice for 2.5 million D/E class readers and a steadfast Tory supporter. In 1997 they switched to Labour and put Tony Blair in power. In 2009 they changed back and the Tory party gained power against the odds. Don't underestimate its impact.
Given the dive in newspaper sales over the past few years, I wouldn't overestimate the power of the press barons these days; I suspect, as you alluded to earlier, the even more biased and unobjective world of social media may now be having a greater influence on the election campaign.
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Old 19th Nov 2019, 10:21
  #11540 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
Saul, some years ago the Sun was the paper of choice for 2.5 million D/E class readers and a steadfast Tory supporter. In 1997 they switched to Labour and put Tony Blair in power. In 2009 they changed back and the Tory party gained power against the odds. Don't underestimate its impact.
Well that firmly nails the demographic then ! .........sadly, you seem to have forgotten said rag also adorned the tables of many crew rooms, including, shock ! horror ! aircrew and also mysteriously migrated to many civilian flight decks ! .....not that, in fairness , you would be aware of the latter. Still, that's the broad appeal of the rag eh !

Nice to learn you survived your visit Saul,

But, the question is this.

What will be nation, and this includes JB contributors who often give the impression of living in a parallel universe, chaps, be consuming during tonight's debate ?

Such details can be crucial for accurate profiling of the electorate you understand.....
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