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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

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UK Politics Hamsterwheel MkII

Old 16th Nov 2019, 18:46
  #11501 (permalink)  
 
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The problem with this is, Momentum run the Labour Party. They would replace 1 Marxist with another.
Grayply was right in his suggested solution. The problem is that we are stuck with a voting system which actively works to prevent representative government. Johnson doing the bidding of his well-heeled subscribers or Corbyn being in hock to Momentum or McCluskey is never going to change until each vote cast has the same value as any other. The present system does not come anywhere near that - location is the major factor in vote value and that makes the system totally corrupt. Small interest groups control the major Parties through contributions/levies. That can only happen as long as political interests are 'grouped' . Declaring my interest, I was 72 years old before I could cast a vote which might influence an election result. I have asked again and again for those who quote 'Democracy' as the basis of some expressed viewpoint to define the word/term'concept but without a single reply. If you can't define it, how the hell can you claim it as an argument prop? Next time you hear or read someone's claim to Democratic values, particularly politicians, ask yourself how you think they define it!! So many of the viiews expressed are regurgitations of views culled from the various media - hardly an original, dispassionate offering anywhere.
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Old 16th Nov 2019, 19:09
  #11502 (permalink)  
 
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Cornish Jack

I fear you are tilting at windmills.....
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 07:12
  #11503 (permalink)  
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As we know, weekend television is usually saturation coverage of how "the lads dun gud wiv a two oner and how dey give it 150 percenter "....aka the "beautiful game " which we are all supposed to revere above all else...

Ironically, a lot of the lads weren't actually waltzing around this weekend which allowed not one, but two, interviews of more than a passing interest to be aired..... and taken notice of.

Tonight's offering concerns Boris and a certain lady.....clearly Boris and chivalry may not be entirely compatible it would seem .....and, it's on ITV not the BBC......which may increase the JB viewing figures ......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ne-night-stand

Other musical recordings with similar sentiments are available, however, Boris , being a Clash and Stones fan ( according to Boris, which probably means he isn't ) may not have heard of this quartet.....


Last edited by Krystal n chips; 17th Nov 2019 at 07:23.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 09:45
  #11504 (permalink)  
 
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Avionker - I'm sure you are right - too many powerful vested interests. More than anything, it's the hypocrisy of using 'Democracy' as the crutch for demonstrably undemocratic actions and viewpoints which bugs me. To paraphrase, "there are lies, damned lies and quoting ;Democracy'
Q. What do you call a donkey in Spain?
A. Oatey
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 12:31
  #11505 (permalink)  
 
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The first step to reducing the influence of those “powerful vested interests” is to get rid of the FPTP electoral system.

For as long as the UK effectively has a 2 party system, with the Government and the Opposition adopting diametrically opposite positions as a point of principle, the UK can never be a true democracy.

Proportional representation is the only way to fix British politics, but when offered the chance a few years ago the people said no.

Perhaps it’s time to ask again.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 14:05
  #11506 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Originally Posted by Krystal n chips View Post
As we know, weekend television is usually saturation coverage of how "the lads dun gud wiv a two oner and how dey give it 150 percenter "....aka the "beautiful game " which we are all supposed to revere above all else...

Ironically, a lot of the lads weren't actually waltzing around this weekend which allowed not one, but two, interviews of more than a passing interest to be aired..... and taken notice of.

Tonight's offering concerns Boris and a certain lady.....clearly Boris and chivalry may not be entirely compatible it would seem .....and, it's on ITV not the BBC......which may increase the JB viewing figures ......

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ne-night-stand

Other musical recordings with similar sentiments are available, however, Boris , being a Clash and Stones fan ( according to Boris, which probably means he isn't ) may not have heard of this quartet.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbxxkwBQk_o
Blimey K 'n C, fairs fair. Even the Guardian subscription department should give credit to "The Teddy Bears" who first made "To know" (written by Phil Spector) a hit in 1958. I still have the record and the drummer sounds as though he is using a biscuit tin!
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 15:51
  #11507 (permalink)  
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 17:27
  #11508 (permalink)  
 
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He went on to say he would define it as “a product of an attempt to bring people together after the second world war”. While the quote might not throw it’s arms around the military as much as some would like, it’s not massively controversial to suggest that there was more to post WW2 stability in Western Europe than the implication that it woz NATO wot did it guv!
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 18:34
  #11509 (permalink)  
 
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The Nip:
Sorry Kelvin you are wrong. I use Virgin and is fibre cable. It run all along the road and each property has an individual line into their house.
That's more or less what I said.BT provide the fibre to the cabinet and Virgin provide the connection from the cabinet to the house. Alternatively, if anyone thinks Virgin provide the fibre the whole way, then show me a Virgin exchange or some other centrally sited building housing all their routers, fibre optic transmitters/receivers etc.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 18:36
  #11510 (permalink)  
 
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Curious Pax; I would say it was a combination of NATO, the monies from the Marshall Plan, The European Coal and Steel Community, the good pals Salter and his more famous pal Monnet who worked with their friends in the American Committee on United Europe to try to establish a politically united Europe. The latter body disappeared when the UK joined the EEC....
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 21:06
  #11511 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
The Nip:
That's more or less what I said.BT provide the fibre to the cabinet and Virgin provide the connection from the cabinet to the house. Alternatively, if anyone thinks Virgin provide the fibre the whole way, then show me a Virgin exchange or some other centrally sited building housing all their routers, fibre optic transmitters/receivers etc.
You're still wrong.
Virgin have their own fibre network to their cabinets. They are not dependent upon BT for distribution.
That's why Virgin offers 500Mb downloads while BT are currently still at 75Mb.
They also use an entirely different multiplex system - DOCSIS - which is incompatible with BT.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 21:24
  #11512 (permalink)  
 
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The first step to reducing the influence of those “powerful vested interests” is to get rid of the FPTP electoral system.
Exactly so.
Proportional representation is the only way to fix British politics, but when offered the chance a few years ago the people said no.

First part correct - second part not so ... what we were offered (I believe, intentionally so) was a mish-mash 'alternative vote' system; neither fish nor fowl and avoiding any possibility of individual choice. Of course it was rejected. PR means just that - the TOTAL votes cast for each Party ('They' certainly won't get rid of the Party system!) are aggregated and seats are allocated on the basis of percentages gained. Very simple very FAIR and, therefore, doomed never to be adopted.
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Old 17th Nov 2019, 21:25
  #11513 (permalink)  
 
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None of which makes Corbyn’s half-baked plan to have our broadband run by de-facto civil servants at monumental expense any less idiotic.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 07:11
  #11514 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
The Nip:
That's more or less what I said.BT provide the fibre to the cabinet and Virgin provide the connection from the cabinet to the house. Alternatively, if anyone thinks Virgin provide the fibre the whole way, then show me a Virgin exchange or some other centrally sited building housing all their routers, fibre optic transmitters/receivers etc.
Understand your point. I didn't explain well enough. I have had virgin without paying anything to BT. Sometime ago whist using Sky, I needed to pay BT for a line even before paying Sky. Nowadays the payment to BT is 'hidden'.

I also realise that Virgin is probably paying Openreach/BT on my behalf!
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 07:26
  #11515 (permalink)  
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And back to the GE.....this week it appears business will be the recipient of the money tree's bumper crop 2019.

In case some have a rather selective case of amnesia, allow me to remind you of Boris's little quip..." F&*k business ".........this sentiment may now be amended however

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44618154

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50454627
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 08:39
  #11516 (permalink)  
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Oh dear, another schism in the People’s Front of Judaea. Just what they need in the midst of the election.....

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9205881.html
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 09:12
  #11517 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by The Nip View Post
Understand your point. I didn't explain well enough. I have had virgin without paying anything to BT. Sometime ago whist using Sky, I needed to pay BT for a line even before paying Sky. Nowadays the payment to BT is 'hidden'.

I also realise that Virgin is probably paying Openreach/BT on my behalf!
Read my post above.

Virgin Media DO NOT use BT 's network.

It is not capable of carrying Virgin's high speed broadband and TV to the cabinets.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 09:48
  #11518 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Cornish Jack View Post
The first step to reducing the influence of those “powerful vested interests” is to get rid of the FPTP electoral system.
Exactly so.
Proportional representation is the only way to fix British politics, but when offered the chance a few years ago the people said no.

First part correct - second part not so ... what we were offered (I believe, intentionally so) was a mish-mash 'alternative vote' system; neither fish nor fowl and avoiding any possibility of individual choice. Of course it was rejected. PR means just that - the TOTAL votes cast for each Party ('They' certainly won't get rid of the Party system!) are aggregated and seats are allocated on the basis of percentages gained. Very simple very FAIR and, therefore, doomed never to be adopted.
The trouble with PR is that small extremist party's get seats and can end up in government as part of a coalition. Would you want the BNP or the Communist party in power??
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 09:56
  #11519 (permalink)  
 
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What does occur to me is that the GE actually offers a second referendum by proxy. Now Labour are offering one we can safely add together Tory, Brexit, UKIP and DUP votes as pro Brexit and all the rest as Remain. It will be interesting to see if the former falls short of 17.4 million or indeed comprises a majority.
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Old 18th Nov 2019, 10:33
  #11520 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by scr1 View Post
The trouble with PR is that small extremist party's get seats and can end up in government as part of a coalition. Would you want the BNP or the Communist party in power??
Not necessarily so. The German system, I believe, has a bar of 5% of the popular vote to get seats in the Bundestag. Would the BNP or Communist Party achieve that? Curiously, if PR were applied to this upcoming election a likely outcome could be a coalition of Con, Brexit and DUP forming the government. Not my choice, but that is democracy for you. At least, as with Corbyn's lot, we could at least vote them out in 5 (or less) years time.
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